This week on I’m Obsessed With This, host Bobby Finger welcomes co-host of Call Your Girlfriend and co-author of the forthcoming book Big Friendship Aminatou Sow (@aminatou) to talk about, among other things, her obsession with the ridiculous and addictive British competition show My Hotter Half! (Pronounced “My Hah-ah Hahf.“) “It’s very important to interrogate beauty ideals and how you feel about yourself relative to all the messaging you’re getting,” Sow says. “It’s definitely going to happen in a competition show.” But... that doesn’t mean we don’t love it anyway. She also explains why she loves Forensic Files, an extremely niche brand of sparkling water, and actress Aïssa Maïga. All episodes of My Hotter Half are now streaming on Netflix. Watch it! But never ask a couple which one they think is the hotter half. It will only lead to a bad time.
This week on I’m Obsessed With This, host Bobby Finger welcomes co-host of Call Your Girlfriend and co-author of the forthcoming book Big Friendship Aminatou Sow (@aminatou) to talk about, among other things, her obsession with the ridiculous and addictive British competition show My Hotter Half! (Pronounced “My Hah-ah Hahf.“) “It’s very important to interrogate beauty ideals and how you feel about yourself relative to all the messaging you’re getting,” Sow says. “It’s definitely going to happen in a competition show.” But... that doesn’t mean we don’t love it anyway. She also explains why she loves Forensic Files, an extremely niche brand of sparkling water, and actress Aïssa Maïga.
All episodes of My Hotter Half are now streaming on Netflix. Watch it! But never ask a couple which one they think is the hotter half. It will only lead to a bad time.
[Music]
Bobby: Welcome to I'm Obsessed With This, the Netflix podcast about the shows and films viewers cannot get enough of, sort of like how British pedestrians cannot get enough judging hot stranger selfies on iPhones. And today, I'm joined by cohost of Call Your Girlfriend and coauthor of the forthcoming book Big Friendship, Amina Sow. Hi. How are you?
Amina: Oh, my gosh. Hi, Bobby.
Bobby: Hi. You're also in New York, and I'm in New York, but you're in a different part of New York.
Amina: You know, the city can be big sometimes.
Bobby: I like when we have guests and get them. Sometimes, it's like, "Oh, come into the studio with me, or we could book you a studio in L.A. or wherever you are." And then, sometimes, if they have done podcasts in the past, a lot of them will have microphones, and they'll say, "Is it okay if I just record at home?" It's always like, "Yes. Nothing's easier. Nothing is better than you recording at home on your own mic."
Amina: Listen, I'm so happy.
Bobby: This is luxury.
Amina: I'm so happy. I made myself, like, a luxurious lunch. I am literally, like, going back to bed after we finish this. Just, you know, the life of a podcaster. Blessed.
Bobby: It's kind of nice. I'm in a dark bedroom, just a little bit of light creeping through the windows, drinking a glass of water. Not bad. I had some Spindrift here, your favorite.
Amina: Oh, man.
Bobby: Or didn't you move on?
Amina: Listen, it's not that I've moved on. It's just that I'm cheating on Spindrift with this new water called Sanzo, where they're, like, Asian. It's like Asian-inspired flavors, so there's a calamansi one. There is a lychee one, and there is a mango one. And honestly, you know me. I don't, like, love flavors in waters, but I'm like, "If you're going to, you know, do an ethnic twist on this, then I am here." None of this—
Bobby: Oh, I've seen this.
Amina: …none of this—
Bobby: I've had the mango one. I've had the mango one.
Amina: You should do the calamansi one. It's so good, and it's, like, perfect on its own, good with a little, you know, tequila or whatever your thing is.
Bobby: The first Asian-inspired sparkling water. Sanzo uses fruit, no added sugar, to deliver a refreshing taste.
Amina: I am just saying. Sanzo is, you know, it's the new statement water. You heard it here first.
Bobby: I'm waiting. I'm scrolling down, and it has, like, their Instagram grid on the bottom of the website. And, I'm half expecting to find you, like, in a spa, in a park, holding up a can.
Amina: No.
Bobby: #ad. Before I call my girlfriend, I open up a can of Sanzo.
Amina: First of all, this is a labor of love. It's not spawned. That's how you know the love is real, and also, like, I'm pretty sure it's like a, you know, just like one, you know, like, very nice, you know, like, Asian sun, like, doing this. So—
Bobby: Founder Sandro Roco, a Queens-born Filipino-American, was walking through a popular Asian supermarket in Manhattan. This is his origin story. Yeah. It's just one dude.
Amina: See, listen, thank you, Sandro Roco, for making my favorite water.
Bobby: I hope he's listening.
Amina: I hope he's listening. I'm going to spam their Instagram with this later. I'm going to be like, "Hi. Listen to this Netflix podcast." Brought to you by Sanzo.
Bobby: Netflix is going to listen to this segment and go, "Can you cut all the Sanzo spawn?" It sounds like you're doing a brand of broadcast that, like, for a different brand.
Amina: Netflix, if you're listening to this, it's good business to support Mom and Pop businesses. Also, this is 100 percent non-spawn. I really do like the water, and shout out to calamansi.
Bobby: Netflix presents The Sanzo Story is going to be now streaming on Netflix in August 2020. Okay? So, like, don't worry about it.
Amina: Calling my lawyer on the other line.
Bobby: Before we start talking about the selection you made, your obsession, which is My Hotter Half, which honestly—
Amina: First of all, Bobby, it's Hotter Half. Please get it right.
Bobby: Hotter Half. What else have you been watching on Netflix that you have been loving? Movie, show, whatever.
Amina: Oh, my God. So, I am a total Netflix head. It's, like, where I get all of my—Listen, I'm not saying this because this is a Netflix podcast. I'm just saying that I have completely abdicated the responsibility of who picks what I watch for television.
Bobby: You are voracious consumer of all media. Like, you read books. You watch TV. You listen to, like, every song. You watch every movie, it seems, and, like, you know every meme.
Amina: Oh, my God.
Bobby: How do you find these things? I guess, let's focus on Netflix. Like, how do you find these things? Like, I had never seen My Hotter Half served to me.
Amina: So, I have been thinking very long and hard for why Hotter Half was served to me, and it's not like I watch so much Queer Eye that that was the natural—You know, it's just, "Hi. You've seen Queer Eye. Here is Costco-brand Queer Eye, Hotter Half." Like, that's not what it was. I truly, and I—This is, like, the computer people at Netflix, please call me. I think that what it is is that, like, I watch a lot of foreign stuff on Netflix. Like, I've seen pretty much, like, every French movie that's on there. I will always, like, plug in, like, my favorite, kind of, like, obscure actors and try to figure out, like, what they're up to, and they're usually, like, European or Israeli. Netflix has, like, an incredible Israeli, like, catalog that everyone should be into. The French catalog is also legendary. And otherwise, the thing that I fall asleep to every night—This is so shameful, and I can't believe I'm about to say this out loud. It has nothing to do with, like, French or Israeli cinema or whatever—is Netflix has every episode of Forensic Files, and so, they—
Bobby: They do?
Amina: Oh, that's my ASMR I fall asleep to. Like, I've watched so much Forensic Files, Bobby, that we're now in the seasons of Forensic Files where they catch the criminals because they try to perfect all Forensic Files cases. Like, that's what's happening.
Bobby: Can you guess, can you name the date Forensic Files premiered?
Amina: Oh, man. I don't know. Like, could be in the '90s, could be 2005. When did it premiere?
Bobby: 1996.
Amina: Okay. That makes—Well, you know, that makes sense because one of the people that is constantly on Forensic Files, because he used to be, like, a prosecutor I guess in Texas, is a terrible Congressman or ex-Congressman, Trey Gowdy. He's in so—
Bobby: Trey Gowdy is on Forensic Files?
Amina: Trey Gowdy has, like—They could make, like, an entire just, like, vertical of Trey Gowdy Forensic Files episodes. He used to be, like, a Texas law guy, and a lot of Forensic Files happen in Texas.
Bobby: Wow.
Amina: But so, anyway, I fall asleep to Forensic Files all the time, and I'm not proud of it. But otherwise, like, what else do I like on Netflix? I'm a very—
Bobby: Do you dream about it? Like, does it infiltrate your dreams or, like, your nightmares maybe?
Amina: No. It's just, like, the soothing voice. Like, the formula is so the same and also, like, who cares, you know. They're never—You don't need to be actually watching if you're listening, and there's something so ASMR-y about that. Otherwise, like, I don't know. I, like, what else do I like on Netflix? Happy Valley Stand for sure.
Bobby: Yeah.
Amina: I loved—What is that show called, the mastermind show? What is it actually called?
Bobby: Masterminds, what?
Amina: No. The Jonathan Groff one. What's that show called?
Bobby: Oh, Mindhunter.
Amina: Sorry. I also like—
Bobby: Masterminds.
Amina: I like Masterminds. I also liked Mindhunter a lot. Can you tell I don't pay attention? And, I don't know. The documentary, like, game on Netflix is great. So, I think you can't go wrong. It's, like, you can just, like, pursue one weird avenue, and then the algorithm, you know, probably Ted Sarandos at home, like, texting the computer for you, figures it out.
Bobby: I haven't watched Forensic Files in so long, since I had whatever it was on Court TV. I don't have Court TV anymore.
Amina: Oh, my God. I mean, I don't recommend it. I'm just saying, if you were, like, a sick person like me, you should look into it. One show though that I will recommend, it's not a show. One movie that I will recommend on Netflix—and I should have probably done today's episode about it—is this French movie called The African Doctor that is very, very, very, very ridiculous and, but is very sweet. And, I like, that's my comfort movie that I watch all the time. It's definitely, like, a movie for kids. Like, it's not, there's nothing, like, scintillating about it, but it's very much—It's a, kind of, like, American movie genre that I didn't realize, like, existed in French, like also this, like, very feel good, kind of, like, family journey situation. And so, that's why I like it. But also, if you watch it, it'll serve you a lot of other very good French movies. The actress in that, Aissa Maiga, is in another one of my favorite French Netflix movies called He Even Has Your Eyes about a black family that adopts a white baby.
Bobby: Okay.
Amina: It's just, there's a lot of, like French ridiculousness. So, you know, it's—
Bobby: Oh, she's also in The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind, which I have seen.
Amina: Oh, yeah. She's, I mean, she's literally the most famous French actress to me. I just, I don't know why she's not on the cover of every magazine over there because they're fools.
Bobby: When do you usually watch these things? Because, as someone whose job it is, it literally is your job as a podcaster, but not only, like, you know, not to use the term, but, like, a cultural commentator, a cultural critic, which I think is, if not explicitly your job, at least part of your job. You're constantly having to consume things, read things, watch things. Do you put these sorts of, like, the different categories of media, do you put them in different buckets with regards to your time? You said you watch Forensic Files at night. Like, when do you read? When do you watch, like, sitcoms? Like, do you give these things little buckets, or do you just, sort of, do them spontaneously?
Amina: Man, it's so funny. Until very recently, I felt a lot of shame about watching television in daytime hours because that just felt, it just felt like I was cheating on other work, you know. And, you're right. Sometimes, it is work. It's even if I had a screener for a thing that I have to review, I always, I was like, "It's still light outside. I can't watch this." Right? I can't watch this right now. But, I've really shaken that off. I think that now I just do very much, you know, like, body's choice. What do I want to be consuming? I do read throughout the day, and I found that just, like, watching TV really cuts into that. It makes me—I like to watch, like, sitcoms now early in the morning, that is, you know, I was like, instead of watching the news that always depresses me. You know how I'm, like, I used to be addicted to MSNBC.
Bobby: Yeah. That's the worst.
Amina: And now, I just go, "Well, you know what? I don't want to watch the news in the morning." And instead, when I'm getting ready or if I just have, like, a pretty chill day, I will turn on something delightful to watch in the morning, and that has really, it's really, kind of, turned my day around. But, I think—
Bobby: It changes your mood for the entire day.
Amina: Yeah. But, I still think that I do the bulk of my, you know, like, viewing later in the day just because I like to have uninterrupted blocks of time to do other kinds of work.
Bobby: And when is the best time of the day, as an expert, to watch My Hotter Half?
Amina: Oh, my God. Hotter Half is really wow, wow, wow, wow. I will say that I discovered it on a weekend. It was, like, a mindless weekend. Like, I had done all my chores. I was kind of bored. I was zapping through the, you know, the Smart TV. What can I watch? And, I got sucked in and watched, like, probably 13 episodes in a row, just like mindless stuff. But truly, anytime Hotter Half finds you is a good time to watch it.
[Music]
[Clip from Hotter Half]
Host: This is the show where you face off against your partner. Who do you think is going to win?
Male: Me.
Host: To find out who people think is hotter.
Male: Wow.
Host: You're the hotter half! Myself and Mira takes the snaps. We show them as single online daters.
Female: I would definitely go on a date with this guy.
Host: Ooh. And, I'm the lucky one who gets to give them the results. Sheesh! Yes!
Male: Oh, I would definitely go on a date with her.
Host: Oh, and one more thing, the loser gets a full fashion remix and then another shot at leveling the score.
Male: This transformation is blowing my mind.
Host: Think of it as a public service. You look hot! Because, no one wants to be punching right.
Male: It's probably because of blue steel, mate. Open.
Host: Welcome to My Hotter Half.
[End of clip of My Hotter Half]
Bobby: What's funny is that you had said I want to do Hotter Half, and its title is so explicit that you're, sort of, shocked that it is such, it's high concept and it's easy to explain as it is. It's couples, whether they're friends, whether they are actual, like, romantic partners. They go to this guy Melvin. Isn't his name Melvin?
Amina: Yes. His name is Melvin.
Bobby: They go to Melvin.
Amina: He's a British-Guinean comedian. He's amazing.
Bobby: British-Guinean comedian Melvin introduces himself to a couple. They each take selfies. God knows what team goes out onto the streets of London—I presume it's London—and asks strangers to—And how do you think they do this? They ask strangers to answer the question of this person hot, and I actually think it's, sort of, brilliant. It's a less controversial, less shame-y question than, like, is this person hot. It's would you go on a date with this person, which I think is a little more relatable and a little less icy. It stings maybe a little less than something that more directly comments on their looks.
Amina: Well, Bobby, even the way that you're explaining this is giving this show a little too much credit because I love that you said, that you were like, "This is high-concept." And, the first thing that I thought when I saw this show is, like, this is demented. Couples, people in couples, first of all, I cannot relate. But, people in couples are wild. The idea—
Bobby: Never in my life would I want to know what strangers in Britain think about my looks ever, never. Never, never, never.
Amina: But, this is what is so—I think two things about this show, like initially, is that this is a show that is only possible not inside America because the idea of Hotter Half U.S. is, like, I can't even begin to fathom it.
Bobby: It's the 30 Rock joke where, like, they would go into production in 10 minutes and someone would scream, "Shut it down. We cannot do this anymore. The comments we are getting are took dark. This is so nasty and terrible. Just everyone get their day rate. Take whatever you want from craft services. Let's get the fuck out of this."
Amina: Wild. But also, so, the other thing that is going on though, to me, is this thing that I think we all know and understand to be true, at least of other people's couples, not in our relationships, is that there is just this idea that one person is, like, slumming it and the other person is punching above their weight. We never just believe that, you know, it's, like, fours meets fours and tens meet tens. It's like, "No, no, no." There always has to be a serious imbalance.
Bobby: There's a seven and a three.
Amina: Particularly in heterosexual relationships, there's always, like, something is not working there. But, the idea, to me, that a couple would volunteer for this, like "Oh, which one of us his hotter?", is so demented. I was like, "How is this good for your relationship? How is this good for your own mental health?" And, but, at its core, reality TV really is about humiliation, and I was like, "Okay, great. Like, people who want to humiliate themselves go on this." But, the thing that I didn't anticipate about the show is that it would make me feel so good about myself because you just watch people do insane things one after the other.
Bobby: Demented expands beyond just the contestants, but also the people on the street because, if I were given a photo of someone and asked would I date this person and then, like, not only to answer yes or no—because that's a yes or no question—but, like, they're obviously, like, asking them to elaborate. And, it's like, "No, no, no. Explain what you like or don't like about their looks." I would get so uncomfortable, and I wouldn't continue. So, like, the people who are on the street are as demented as the people who are in the studio.
Amina: But, in this regard, it's just like swiping right or left on Tinder because you are making a judgment call on someone based on a selfie. Which also, I want to be clear that whatever they are calling—
Bobby: It's not a selfie.
Amina: …a selfie on the show is not a selfie. People stand in front of this thing called the Mirror, Me Mirror, or something weird like that, and the mirror takes a photo of them. So, it's not front-facing camera, but whatever, England. We'll let it slide, but I think that's also—
Bobby: Selfies are never full body.
Amina: Right.
Bobby: No one has arms that long.
Amina: Nobody. But also, like, the commentary is always exactly what you expect that it'll be, where women are, you know—Again, like, to be very heteronormative about it with the hetero couples at least, women will be very, you know, generally, like, more forgiving about things. So, they will comment on, like, attitudes, or they're like, "Oh, no. Not this guy. He looks like a player." You know? And then, on the men—
Bobby: He's not a lad.
Amina: And, the men will say things also where you roll your eyes. Where, when there was, like, a black woman contestant, for example, everybody, like, decided that she was sassy, even though there was nothing sassy about her pose. And, I was like, "Great. Like, societal expectations just, like foisted on a picture of, you know, like, unsuspecting stranger." And so, that also I find really interesting, where it's like, "Oh, yeah." Everybody is just saying the quiet thing out loud here, and so, it's everything that you suspect it'll be.
Bobby: There was a guy who mentioned, like, the weirdest, most specific, pettiest critique. He was like, "I wouldn't date her. I don't like her red—" He didn't call it lipstick. He called it lippie. "I don't like her red lippie. I don't like when women wear red lippie." And, I was like, "What?"
Amina: I mean, but how is this different from, again, like, you know, Tinder-ing, right? And so—
Bobby: Yeah. I know it is.
Amina: …it's not—But also, the psychology of the people who do this, I think that, every once in a while, you do get to a little bit of a root cause of an insecurity. There was one couple I remember seeing. Where usually, I'm just like, "Okay. You know, people are complicated and meet each other." And then, there was one couple where, like, one person was clearly the hotter half, and I was like, "How does the not hot half think that they're competing in Hotter Half? This is nuts." And then, like, there's—The makeover portion is very, you know, it's like, if Queer Eye is all about, like, breaking down your defense mechanisms or whatever, these guys just look like hipster bartenders who are trying to help you get a drink somewhere.
Bobby: Every time one of them says, "I'm a hairstylist. I'm a beauty person," I'm like, "Please, I need to see your portfolio because I'm not convinced you did this before getting cast on this show."
Amina: Bobby, the makeovers are so bad. First of all, they make all the men look like the final boss at Top Shop, Top Man. That's what's going on here.
Bobby: Or at Stumptown coffee. Absolutely. Like, they're about to make you a latte or a flat white. Oh, flat white is what they're about to make you.
Amina: How is it possible to be made over on television and you look worse than you came in?
Bobby: That happens over and over again. I was—
Amina: It's nuts.
Bobby: …going to mention this to you, and I think the comparison to Queer Eye is really funny because Queer Eye, whether you like it or not, I mean, they try to make structural changes. And, I think even Tan, when he approaches wardrobe, I get—Let's just specifically talk about Tan. When he approaches wardrobe, he, like, gets into their body issues, get into, like, body shape, and he's like, "This is what you should do to your entire wardrobe to maybe start dressing in ways that are more flattering to you and, sort of, release the parts of your personality and physicality that you should show off." But, in this one, it's like, "I'm literally going to give you one night-out outfit for, like, a club that isn't even good, based on exclusive what I have on this rack." Like, everyone seems to be, like, working with a very limited amount of construction materials, you know, where—
Amina: That's the entirety of Europe, Bobby. That's literally why they're Brexiting. They don't have anything over there.
Bobby: But, at the same time, I watched so many episodes of this. It is, like you said, it's not necessarily comforting, but it's hypnotic because you, in every episode you are in this, like, consistent state of disbelief that anyone involved is participating. Maybe the only person who I understand is Melvin. Like, I get why Melvin's there. Melvin got a good check. It's a quick gig. He doesn't really have to prepare. Everyone else, I'm like, "Why did you sign on the dotted line? Why did you sign the release?"
Amina: Bobby, I'm not even convinced about Melvin's check because, if you notice, he's wearing the same outfit, like, throughout the whole full episodes. So, you know that they're all shooting on the same day. I'm like, "This is episode nine. You're still wearing this denim shirt. What's happening here?"
Bobby: What was an episode where you were watching through your fingers, sort of, disturbed by what was happening onscreen?
Amina: Wow. There was definitely the Ed Sheeran lookalike episode. You know who I'm talking about?
Bobby: Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes.
Amina: There was that guy. There was, you know, I think probably the episode though was very early on for me that had me dying was—I mean, the first one is wild, but there's an episode where there was a black woman and a white, redhead, like, interracial couple.
Bobby: Yeah.
Amina: And, the reason that I was cringing is because I have actually encountered them on YouTube, another platform, and so, I was like, "Oh. I've watched your vlogs before. What are you people doing here?" And, it felt like this very much—I don't like it when my people platform jump. I was like, "This is a couple I know on YouTube. I don't talk to anyone about watching their weird vlog of their relationship."
Bobby: The redhead with, like, the Viking beard?
Amina: Yes, the Viking man, who they made—
Bobby: They're YouTubers?
Amina: …look like the barista. Oh, my God, Bobby, they are YouTubers.
Bobby: With a, sort of, indiscernible accent?
Amina: Yes.
Bobby: Or, either he had a weird, indiscernible accent or he just didn't speak loudly. I was like, "I can't understand what you're saying."
Amina: He's Scandinavian of some sort. So, he's also not British, and she's from the Gambia, maybe. And, they live in London, and they have this, like, very—I'm exposing myself on so many levels today, but they have this, like, very weird YouTube—
Bobby: Oh, my God!
Amina: …vlog that they do that's very much in the genre of—There are a lot of these, like, interracial, like, black woman/white man relationship vlogs, and, for research purposes, I've been looking into all of them. And now, it's not research. It's a full on, like, what is wrong with these people. But anyway—
Bobby: It's a subscription. You can't click on subscribe.
Amina: Right. You can't, but so, when I saw them on the show, I was, like, my—I felt like I had been exposed, and I have nothing to do with any of this. I was like, "No. They're being exposed to more people." And, but, I think that also that was the one where I was really like, "Wow. What is this makeover team doing?" You know? Because, he looked so bad in the second, in the makeover outfit that they gave him. They made him look like someone who works at one of these, like, fancy cocktail bars that's actually not good. The thing I think about the show too that it's just, the thing that I keep watching for all the time is that, in my mind, I'm always like, "What does the American version of this show look like?" And, the American version of this show is two intensely hot people, like, American television hot, which is unattainable for everyone at home, or is, like, one very hot person and one, like, very homely person. You know, like, the contrast is so stark, and there is nothing kind about it. There is nothing aspirational about it. It just makes you feel bad, and this show is not, it's not great. But, there is nothing about it that you feel reflects on you as a viewer. You're just like okay.
Bobby: Yeah, right.
Amina: My life is going just fine. I'm not a TV show humiliating myself right now.
Bobby: Do you think there is a way to make a show about physical appearance that isn't like this, that is somehow helpful or can inspire growth in someone? Maybe not counting Queer Eye because I think that's the main example, but that's a little bigger. Like, is there a way to do a show about hotness that isn't cringeworthy?
Amina: I think that not tying it to relationship status is definitely one way to do that because I think that people being so aware of what they look like because of this, like, weird circumstance is not great. I also think that the only way to do that is also to have people actually open up about what it is that they think about themselves, which never happens on Hotter Half. You know, it's just, like, truly a competition of, "I'm the hottest person in this couple." I'm like, "Eh, are you sure about that?" You're, like, who knows? So, I don't know. But, I do think that, you know, it's obviously, like, very important to interrogate beauty ideals and to interrogate your own, how you feel about yourself, like, relative to, you know, like, all of this other messaging that you're getting. And, it's definitely not going to happen in a competition show, and it's also not going to happen in a show that has a makeover component. Because, you know, it's like, what are you saying? Is it that you are supposed to accept what you look? Are you trying to change what you look like? Are you, you know, like, do you just need a haircut or is it, like, a deeper intervention than that? And so, I just always find that in a lot of these shows we don't actually talk fully about body acceptance, and we don't talk about insecurity in a way that it's constructive.
Bobby: Yeah. There was an episode where one woman who was the last hotter half went in and she said that she felt comfortable in all black. She only wanted to wear all black, and I feel like in a better show or a show that wasn't this show—because I think this concept is, sort of, incapable of being better than it is, which is to say it's an amazing show, but, you know, like, a thoughtful show—instead of doing something where it's like, "Well, have you ever thought about why you only wear all black? What is it about your body that—Are you hiding something by wearing all black? Like, what is it that led you to only dress in black?", they just said, "Why not throw in some color? You should wear yellow." And so, they just put her in a yellow jacket, like a HYPEBEAST jacket and blue jeans and were like, "Go out on the town." And, people liked it more, and there was really no commentary on what that says about her, what that says about culture. And, like, there was no—But, what I also appreciated is that there's never really any promise that they're going to continue doing this. You know? Because, sometimes, when you watch Queer Eye, someone will say, "Yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Bye." Like, Tan leaves, and you find yourself wondering, like, how long are they going to maintain this new stylistic choice that has been given to them? And sometimes, you, kind of, expect them to, but, in this one, not once did I ever think they were going to continue wearing the way they were styled.
Amina: You know, one show that actually tackled a lot of this very well and I think did a really good job at talking a lot about fashion challenges, but really it was about this, you know, like, beauty and fashion and your place in the world, was actually What Not to Wear.
Bobby: I knew you were going to say that.
Amina: What Not to Wear is great, Bobby.
Bobby: Yeah, it is. It is.
Amina: I think so much about how, like, I grew up watching that show, and I cannot think of one episode where they made someone feel bad or they made people at home feel badly, or it was, "You have to lose weight, or you have to—" You know, the intervention was always dress for the body that you have. There was never an inkling of maybe if you did your hair differently or if you did this or this or this. They were just always very helpful suggestions to live in the body that you had, and I think that it was important that they came from actual fashion experts. But also, I don't know. I just think that a show—I'm really surprised that a show like that is not being revisited in this moment where we revisit, you know, there's so many reboots or people are just, like, dumping catalogs of old shows. And, like, that show actually is iconic.
Bobby: Yeah. It seems like a very, like, Tan spinoff, you know? If Tan just did one thing, I think, I mean, I think that could be said about any of the Queer Eye people where their shows could work on their own. Like, you know, Extreme Makeover: Bobby Edition, just Tan, like, Getting Tan with Tan France. You know, it, all these things are carriable. But, I—And, yeah, that's a good distinction because, this one, they're not dressing for the body you have. They're not dressing for, like, what makes you happy, what makes you comfortable. They're dressing for the crowd, and not just any crowd, the type of person who would be happy to critique a stranger on the street in front of a camera, which is such a specific type of person, you know. Like, you're not just dressing for anyone. You're dressing for the most judgmental millennial in all of London town, you know.
Amina: Please call it London town all the time.
Bobby: London town.
Amina: London town.
Bobby: Has anyone ever told you like, "You shouldn't wear blue. Like, this isn't your color,", like unsolicited?
Amina: Bobby, I'm a fat woman. People give me unsolicited fashion advice all the time.
Bobby: What's something you get all the time?
Amina: All the time, it's—So, I like to wear a lot of crop tops, and people do not like seeing a fat belly. So, I will literally have people pull my shirt down because they think that I'm just like Pooh Bear-ing it. They, like, they don't understand that it's a fashion choice.
Bobby: You're like, "No."
Amina: Yeah.
Bobby: It's not going to go anywhere if you pull.
Amina: Yeah. This is not Winnie the Pooh. Like, I know what I'm doing. I mean, like, I'm not Pooh Bear-ing out here. And so, like, that's a thing. I get a lot of commentary on the—Because, I wear a lot of prints and very just, like, bold. I like to, like, pattern clash. And so, the perennial advice around that was always like, "You know, like, fat girls shouldn't wear stripes." I'm like, "Bitch, try me." And, I find, and I also, like, find that very interesting because they're, like, people just feel okay stepping up to you saying things that they would never say to anyone else. And, the problem is that, one, I don't care and, two, I, like, clap back pretty strongly. So, you know, I'm always like, "Wow. Congratulations. You played yourself. You're talking to the wrong person on the street." But, yeah. I think that, when I was younger, there were definitely moments where it was very jarring to me, and now, it's mostly annoying/amusing. It, like, falls more in that category, but, like, I also think that a lifetime of, you know, having to deal with that and healthy dose of watching, like, What Not to Wear and, you know, reading, like, good feminist texts has, like, genuinely made me immune to a lot of that. But, it's something that I still think about constantly.
Bobby: Yeah. And yet, you can still find enjoying in something like this, but, like you said, a lot of the enjoyment stems from the fact that you're not involved. You're just like, "Thank God I'm not involved. I can watch this train wreck from, like, miles and miles and miles away.
Amina: One hundred percent. I just, I think it's a good TV show for the political moment that we're in. You're just like okay. Like, the world is fully trash, but there are some train wrecks that just do not involve me. And, I don't know. It just, watching that show, every time I look around my own life, I just find one more thing to be thankful about. I'm like, "Okay, great." Like, you know what I mean? Like, my life is not charmed, but also, I'm not on a television show with my partner begging for the British crowd of people who are not hot themselves judging what I look like.
Bobby: That is, I think, one of my favorite parts of this show when it shows the reactions of the contestants to the reactions of the pedestrians, and often, that reaction is, "Well, I wouldn't go out with him either, so."
Amina: Yeah. Spiderman pointing at Spiderman. It's true.
Bobby: That is the best segment.
Amina: It's true. But also, just this idea that—I get it, right, that you are, you're supposed to be attracted to someone, but just the idea that attraction is physical only, I was like, even for the most, like, oafish of men, I'm like, "Are we really doing this? Is this a message that we're, like, believing in mass?" This is so stupid.
Bobby: I have a—Oh, God. I wrote down this note while I was—I think was from maybe the third or the fourth episode. But, the thought of someone saying this to me, if I were onstage at, you know, My Hotter Half in, you know, the back alley behind a better studio where they filmed this, the first thing that someone said to one of the contestants—I think it was a woman—walks up there and then the makeup person just says, "Well, we haven't got loads of work to do on your face." I was like, "If that's the first piece of commentary when someone looks at my whole body, head to toe, clothes to face to makeup to everything and just says, "Well, we haven't got loads of work to do on your face,' I'd find the release form and rip it up."
Amina: I would definitely do the sign of the cross and go, "Thank God."
Bobby: I haven't got loads of work to do on your face. Before we end this, I want to play a dumb game with you. It's called Hotter Half.
Amina: Yes.
Bobby: A rapid fire examination of iconic couples in history and culture, mostly very recent history, and you've just got to tell me, gut decision, which one is the hotter half.
Amina: Oh, no. I'm scared now. Okay.
Bobby: Some are fictional. Some are real. Some are just friends. Some are romantic. Some are mother and daughter. You know?
Amina: Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Bobby: I'm going to start with, kind of—
Amina: Take a deep breath. Let's do it.
Bobby: I'm going to start with, kind of, easy, quick, top-level relationships first. Okay?
Amina: Tell me.
Bobby: Beyoncé and Jay-Z.
Amina: Oh, Beyoncé.
Bobby: Okay. Ben and Jennifer 1.0.
Amina: Oh, I was like who is Ben and Jennifer? Wait, who is 1.0 Jennifer?
Bobby: Ben Affleck, Jennifer Lopez.
Amina: Okay, Jennifer Lopez. Got it. Ben Affleck.
Bobby: Okay. Great, great, great.
Amina: Sorry. People are going to be mad at me for that one, but sorry.
Bobby: Chrissy and John.
Amina: Ooh, Chrissy.
Bobby: Chrissy? Okay. Kim and Kanye.
Amina: Ugh, I plead the fifth.
Bobby: Chris and Cory.
Amina: Chris.
Bobby: Okay. Oh, here we go. Wynonna Judd and Naomi Judd.
Amina: Oh, wow. Why you—
Bobby: The Judds.
Amina: …got to break my heart? Wynonna.
Bobby: Okay. Simon and Garfunkel.
Amina: I mean, that's who is locked out of the show. You know, Paul Simon, even though he looks inappropriate, let's go there.
Bobby: He does. I was listening to Graceland recently, and I was like, "Okay. Okay, sir." Speaking of music, Iman and David Bowie.
Amina: Ooh, that one is tough, but I will say—they're very hot—but I'll say Iman.
Bobby: Okay. Fictional. Jerry and Elaine.
Amina: I thought you were going to say Tom and Jerry, and I was like, "Bobby." Elaine.
Bobby: I almost put Bert and Ernie, and I was like, "I don't want to go there." Okay. Rachel and Ross.
Amina: Ugh, Rachel.
Bobby: Isn't that disgusting? Chandler and Joey.
Amina: Damn. Okay. Amina a long time ago would have said Chandler, but Amina today is saying Joey.
Bobby: Okay. I think I agree with that. Jim and Pam.
Amina: Ugh, I guess Jim.
Bobby: Okay. Well, a couple more fictional people. Mulder and Scully.
Amina: Scully.
Bobby: I think so too. Thelma and Louise.
Amina: Damn, Louise.
Bobby: I think so too. Yeah. I think we're all on the same page on all of these things.
Amina: Wow, Bobby. We're attracted to the same people, which really tracks with you and me. You know this problem, right?
Bobby: Okay. How about this? Brad and Claire from Bon Appetit.
Amina: Damn, okay.
Bobby: Oh, Chris and Claire. Chris and Claire.
Amina: Chris and Claire? Claire.
Bobby: Okay. Okay. That's easy. Yoko and John.
Amina: Ugh, neither of them, but Yoko, I guess.
Bobby: Jada and Will.
Amina: Damn. Jada.
Bobby: Sonny and Cher.
Amina: Cher.
Bobby: Goldie and Kurt.
Amina: Damn. I should say Goldie, but I'm going to say Kurt.
Bobby: That's tough. Maybe I agree. I don't want to say what I think, but I know it's Kurt.
Amina: Wow.
Bobby: Brad and Angie.
Amina: Brad.
Bobby: Brad and Jennifer Aniston.
Amina: Brad.
Bobby: Lenny Kravitz and Lisa Bonet.
Amina: Damn. That's not even her hottest, like, dude. You know, I'm going to say Lisa Bonet.
Bobby: Okay. Courtney B. Vance and Angela Bassett.
Amina: Damn.
Bobby: They've been together for 100 years.
Amina: That's tough. That's tough. That's a tie. Angela, Angela. We're leaning Angela.
Bobby: Okay. Two left. Barack and Michelle.
Amina: Oh, Michelle, please.
Bobby: And then, finally, Meghan and Harry. No. Before we get to Meghan and Harry, Kate and Will. Start with Kate and Will.
Amina: Kate.
Bobby: Okay. Meghan and Harry.
Amina: That's literally the plot of Hotter Half. It's Meghan and Harry. Meghan. That should be an episode of Hotter Half. There you go.
Bobby: Oh, my God. It would put them into a crisis. The whole country would just collapse if they went on Hotter Half.
Amina: I mean, they should. They're literally on Hotter Half right now, and the public is choosing the wrong person. So, there you go.
Bobby: But, that is, again, a perfect episode of Hotter Half. They always choose the wrong person. I would say 75 percent of the time they choose the wrong person, but you know they're going to choose the wrong person.
Amina: One hundred percent, but also, Meg and Harry going on Hotter Half is literally this dynamic that I'm talking about where I'm like, "Hello. You are dating a smoke show. Okay? Like, there is—"
Bobby: How dare you make us choose? This should be obvious to everyone with eyes.
Amina: This, like, I'm like, "You are not the hottest person in your relationship, and, if you don't know that, you need to get out of this relationship."
Bobby: And, that's a great way to end the episode. So, thank you, Amina, for coming on this show. This was so much fun to talk about. Everyone should be watching My Hotter Half on Netflix right now. There is six billion episodes. No, I think there's maybe 20. I'm sure it's coming back. How could it not? All episodes are streaming now. You can buy Amina's forthcoming book, what, in 2021, 2020?
Amina: Oh, my God, in 2030. Just kidding. You can go to bigfriendship.com and find out more about it. Don't forget to drink Sanzo water, and—
Bobby: Drink Sanzo and subscribe to Call Your Girlfriend wherever you get your podcasts. In the same place that you subscribe to this podcast and Netflix, please make the Sanzo story before the fourth quarter of next year because everyone needs it. Thanks for listening. Bye.
Amina: Thanks for being my hotter half, Bobby.
[Music]