SPOILER ALERT: Today's episode is all about Stranger Things 3. And yes, I mean all of it. So be sure to finish watching before listening to us discuss it! Or... listen away if you don't care about spoilers! Do you! On today's very special Fourth of July episode of I'm Obsessed With This, host Bobby Finger welcomes Joe Reid (@joereid), Managing Editor for Primetimer.com and co-host of The This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, and Esther Zuckerman (@ezwrites), Senior Entertainment Writer at Thrillist, to talk about Stranger Things 3!! We discuss how much we hate to love Billy, how much we love to love Steve, the joys of Eleven's burgeoning friendship with Max, that scene with Robin, and why we feel so dang bad for Will and Joyce. But most importantly... Bobby reviews New Coke. Stranger Things 3 is streaming NOW on Netflix. Call 754-CALL-BOB and share your current obsessions, and we may discuss it on a future episode! Once again, it's 754-CALL-BOB.
SPOILER ALERT: Today's episode is all about Stranger Things 3. And yes, I mean all of it. So be sure to finish watching before listening to us discuss it! Or... listen away if you don't care about spoilers! Do you!
On today's very special Fourth of July episode of I'm Obsessed With This, host Bobby Finger welcomes Joe Reid (@joereid), Managing Editor for Primetimer.com and co-host of The This Had Oscar Buzz podcast, and Esther Zuckerman (@ezwrites), Senior Entertainment Writer at Thrillist, to talk about Stranger Things 3!! We discuss how much we hate to love Billy, how much we love to love Steve, the joys of Eleven's burgeoning friendship with Max, that scene with Robin, and why we feel so dang bad for Will and Joyce. But most importantly... Bobby reviews New Coke.
Stranger Things 3 is streaming NOW on Netflix.
Call 754-CALL-BOB and share your current obsessions, and we may discuss it on a future episode!
Once again, it's 754-CALL-BOB.
[Music]
Bobby: Welcome to I'm Obsessed with This, the Netflix podcast about the shows and films everyone seems to be talking about and why. As usual, we will be having a spoiler filled discussion of all titles today. So, if you don’t want to be spoiled, wait until you finish Stranger Things, season three. I'm your host, Bobby Finger, and today I am joined in the studio by Joe Reid, managing editor for primetimer.com and co-host of the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast and Esther Zuckerman, senior entertainment writer at Thrillest. Hello, you two.
[Music]
Joe: Hello.
Esther: Hello:
Bobby: How’s it going?
Joe: Thanks for having me.
Esther: Thank you for having me.
Bobby: Oh, happy you came, happy we’re all here. It’s hot, we’re drinking cold drinks.
Joe: We’re very much drinking cold drinks.
Bobby: We got some Snapple, we got some iced coffee, we got some more iced coffee, some waters.
Esther: Water, great.
Bobby: Once again, I’m not going to name names but it’s the water that I think is a scam.
Joe: Oh, I feel like a lot of water’s are scams but this definitely—
Esther: This is definitely a scam.
Bobby: Oh, yeah.
Joe: Yeah, there’s like cuneiform on this or something, there’s like secret codes and like language and what not, right?
Bobby: Yeah, the Stranger Things kids would like look at this bottle and like find some sort of secret.
Joe: Yeah.
Bobby: Before we get into stranger things, this show is called I’m Obsessed with This and I want to find out what else you two are obsessed with. I do too much talking so I’m skipping myself today. I’m going to start with Esther because I just looked at you.
Esther: Okay.
Bobby: What are you obsessed with right now?
Esther: I feel like it came out a while ago but one of the things that I frankly am still obsessed with is, I Think You Should Leave because—
Bobby: Join the club.
Esther: Yeah, I know. And I don’t know if anyone said it on the podcast before, I’m sure they have, but like it’s like the best and every Friday night now I have to watch the sketch where—the Honk if You’re Horny sketch where he sings the Friday night song. And it’s like it is the best party trick too, to just like sit down and be like, “We’re going to—we’re just going to watch I Think You Should Leave now.”
Bobby: I have a new favorite thing like every week. I mean, The Car Focus Group is still like my number one—
Joe: That’s the one I will watch reliably every two days. Just because—to like replenish myself.
Esther: But that’s the thing, it’s like mine changes from like moment to moment, day to day. Like sometimes I’m like obsessed Patti Harrison talking about Christmas.
Joe: Oh my God.
Esther: Sometimes like I’m obsessed with Honk if You’re Horny, sometimes I’m obsessed with like Fred Willard throwing plates.
Joe: I’ll give you a list of three and you can choose what you want me to talk about.
Bobby: Okay.
Joe: Jessica Jones, Gosford Park and Nutcracker and the Four Realms.
Bobby: Talk about Nutcracker.
Joe: Okay.
Bobby: It’s July, I mean it’s June, let’s talk about Nutcracker.
Joe: So, I was flipping through, I needed something to like get my mind—I was working, working, working and I was just like, “It’s 5:00, I need to like downshift. So, I’m going to watch just something on Netflix and Nutcracker and the Four Realms.” Which was one of those movies that I’m like, I almost saw it in theaters. It was one of those, just like that—it lost like a face off to something else and I never did. And I remember some people being like, “You know what? It’s stupid but it’s worth watching.” So, I watched it and I’m like, “This is fine.” I keep forgetting who that main girl is because she looks like three other—
Esther: Oh, the one who was in Twilight, right?
Joe: She was the one who was in Twilight, okay.
Esther: She was in Twilight.
Joe: She and Joey King I always keep like—mistaking for each other.
Bobby: It is—
Esther: Mackenzie—
Joe: Mackenzie Foy?
Bobby: Foy.
Esther: … Foy.
Joe: Yes, okay.
Esther: She was also—wasn’t she young Murphy in Interstellar?
Joe: Yes, she was, she was young Murphy.
Bobby: She was young Murphy.
Esther: She was young Murphy.
Joe: Which yes, I should remember her much more for that.
Bobby: Three Murph’s.
Joe: Which was also on TV recently and I watched. But we don’t have time for that. So, I’m watching and it’s fine, it’s fine and then at some point—
Bobby: Do you people have time for Interstellar. That’s like—
Joe: Love Interstellar.
Bobby: It’s so good.
Joe: And then halfway through, maybe two thirds of the way through Nutcracker and the Four Realms, Keira Knightley’s character, who has been like very sort of like squeaky voiced and fun, like she’s doing the like Michelle Williams in I Feel Pretty kind of voice a little bit, which I am fine with. But then she’s the bad guy—
Esther: Spoiler alert.
Joe: … in Nutcracker and the Four Realms. Oh, I’m sorry I thought we were fully in the realm of spoilers.
Bobby: Oh, my God. Oh, you can spoil—I mean, people are going to be really upset that you spoiled Nutcracker and the Four Realms but go ahead.
Joe: I’m sorry.
Bobby: Go ahead.
Joe: But it’s—you know what? Watch it anyway because she, for that last third of that movie, as the bad guy, is so much fun and she is having a ball and I love watching Keira Knightley have fun because that’s great.
Bobby: So, should I wait until the holidays to watch Nutcracker? Should I wait until the winter or is there something sort of fun about watching it in the dead of summer?
Joe: It’s fun in the dead of summer in that like it literally—it makes you feel a little wintery. Like emotionally, which is nice in the middle of the winter. But I also feel like hearing that Nutcracker music feels very good at like Christmas time. Like it’s maybe not one to put in like your Christmas rotation. But like give it a go at Christmas and see how it feels. Like try it out.
Bobby: But enough about the Nutcracker, let’s talk about Stranger Things.
Joe: Okay.
Esther: Great.
Bobby: I had some New Coke overnighted to the studio, it didn’t come in.
Esther: No.
Bobby: Thanks, shout out to our lovely podcast queen at Netflix, Ray got Coke to overnight us some to New York and it’s not here. But I think it’s just because it’s too early.
Joe: So close. Yeah.
Bobby: I wanted to try it, she tried it, she said it’s—I keep hearing that it’s just like sweeter.
Joe: You should have some later and like insert your little like New Coke moment.
Bobby: Right, I will insert the New Coke review here. [Music] Okay, it’s me, I’m home, I’ve got a can of New Coke. Okay, let’s taste this, I’ve got a glass of ice. Look at that fizziness, here we go, I want to make this quick. It’s good. I actually don’t know that I think it’s sweeter. I think it just tastes a little different. It tastes like, it tastes like fake sugar actually. It tastes kind of like fake sugar. If anything, I think it's less sweet then a regular Coke. That’s what it tastes like to me. It doesn’t taste like Coke; it tastes vaguely different. But I’m not mad about it, I wouldn’t like throw a fit, I wouldn’t throw a fit. That’s my review of New Coke, I’m not throwing a fit.
Joe: I liked their moment where they had—it’s Lucas, right?
Esther: Yeah, it’s Lucas.
Joe: Advocates for it and he’s like, “It’s like John Carpenter’s the Thing.” I’m like, “I am right there with you, okay.”
Esther: I feel like I’m usually like good on the ‘80’s references but New Coke I had to do a deep dive Google to like—
Joe: Yeah.
Esther: … because like I saw it and it doesn’t—the thing about the New Coke packaging is it doesn’t look that different.
Joe: It’s just new.
Bobby: No.
Esther: So, like when the moment happened, I was like, “Okay, like what’s going on here?”
Joe: Right, I’m too young to remember New Coke, like experientially but I remember it because I was a communications studies major and that thing is in every single like branding marketing textbook.
Bobby: Oh, yeah.
Joe: Where it’s like, this was the horror story of like what not to do. We almost killed the like most venerable brand in the United States.
Bobby: When I first saw it, I was like, “Oh, wow, it’s yet another Stranger Things, like ‘80’s, just to show a fun piece of packaging to see if you notice it. Like it’s a little Easter egg Coke but I was like wait, New Coke is character in this. New Coke is here. And then I was like, “Oh, I wonder—” In my mind I was like, “It would be smart of Netflix to like bring it back.” And then, I Googled it and it was like, “New Coke is back.”
Esther: New Coke is the fifth lady that is Lucas.
Bobby: Anyway, I’m sorry it’s not here in time.
Esther: Sorry, that was lame.
Joe: No, that was good though, I like that.
Bobby: I wish we could all have had a little on-air taste test but—
Joe: I know, I know.
Bobby: Season four, I guess.
Joe: It sort of felt like it was fitting for this season of Stranger Things in that like I don’t think—I don’t know if the creature is still called a Demogorgon because I don’t think anybody mentions that word.
Esther: It’s the Flayer.
Bobby: It’s the Flayer now, yeah.
Joe: Okay, but it seems like it’s the same thing, like you know what I mean?
Bobby: Yeah.
Joe: I mean, it’s a new name, it’s a new sheen on it or whatever but like—
Esther: It’s so much grosser though.
Bobby: It’s really nasty.
Joe: It’s still some big, blobby, gross thing living underneath this town. And so, I was just sort of like, “You know what, that’s fine, just keep fighting that same monster.” Like, I’m mostly in it for the characters and the fun stuff anyway. I like battle, battle, battle, you know? Eleven with the nosebleed, I get it, like cool.
Bobby: Yeah, I mean we’re already on the spoiler train right now but whenever—at the end when the post script of whatever and then you see the, you see like—
Esther: Though which is the Demogorgon, right?
Bobby: Yeah, well, it’s like—
Esther: Or the Demodog.
Bobby: But it’s like he’s—
Joe: Right.
Bobby: … like bipedal know and I was like, “Oh, he’s standing on two legs, has he ever stood on two legs before?”
Joe: Good for him.
Bobby: I was like, “Oh, he can do this now, great.” It was like, “Okay, go back to the town, let’s do this again.
Joe: Right, exactly, season four.
Bobby: Oh, Winona move? Go to another town.
Joe: Right, exactly.
Bobby: Go to two town, I love this. We just like—it’s just like—I mean, we’re jumping ahead here but I think that’s okay, we can go all around, it’s fine, there are no rules. But it’s like it’s still satisfying, the structure of like, we’re doing all these like desperate things. I’m doing my thing, you’re doing your thing, she’s doing her thing, he’s doing his thing. And then, in the last three episodes, we’re back together now. Okay, now we’re back together.
Joe: And it did make me sort of look forward to that. I’m like, “Oh, they’re all in their little story.” I’m like, “I can’t wait until they all get together.”
Bobby: Yeah, it’s great.
Joe: I love how well this show has settled into the culture in a way that doesn’t make me mad at all. I think when the show first started, I think there was a little bit of a resistance to just how nostalgic it was, it was like aggressive nostalgia. And I think a lot of people were like, “All right, let’s not give it too much credit, for you know, just sort of like leaning on our memories.”
Bobby: Yeah, oh an old Eggo box.
Joe: Right.
Bobby: Big whoop, yeah.
Joe: But now I feel like it’s really enjoyable, it’s really fun. I think I was one of the people who like season two better than season one and I think it was because I don’t think there was as much pressure to have an opinion on it. You know what I mean? A lot of people were just like, “Oh, season two’s not as good as season one.” And then I watched it and I’m like, “This is kind of fun.” I like how they turned Steve into a really fun—
Esther: Love Steve.
Joe: … sort of a goober.
Esther: Steve’s the best.
Joe: Steve’s maybe my favorite character.
Bobby: I love Steve:
Esther: Yeah, he’s the best.
Bobby: Yes, you’re like correct, that was the correct opinion.
Joe: So, I think it’s just at this nice level of like, “I don’t need to have like these very serious opinions on it, I can just sort of sit back and enjoy it and think some things are dumb and some things are fun.” I hate myself for how much I’m into Billy as a character. And it’s just because like he is styled so perfectly of like that guy you thought was hot—
Bobby: And that mustache.
Joe: … in 9th grade and that mustache.
Bobby: Oh, my God, the mustache.
Joe: And the hair. And so, you’re so with—what’s Mike’s mom’s name? Karen, Ellen, something like that.
Bobby: Karen.
Joe: Karen?
Bobby: Karen.
Joe: Karen? Yeah, it’s Karen, right, exactly. And you’re just like—you’re so sort of with her in those first couple episodes of just like this is a mistake honey but I get it, like it’s fine. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Bobby: What about you, Esther?
Esther: So, I think my experience with Stranger Things, the show was like different in general because this was like my screener privilege thing. But I did watch—I watched the first season in a total bubble. I got those screeners, people weren’t—people were sort of skeptical about the screener’s, no one was really paying attention to it. I was like, “Oh, Winona Ryder, loved the return of Winona.” Sat down to watch it and was completely like, “Holy shit, this is so fun.” Like in a complete bubble. I remember actually not realizing it was, I think, only eight episodes because that’s what I had in the screener bundle. And watching the eighth one and being like, “That’s it? It’s over, oh, no.” And like being really upset.
So, I think like the show always has that hurdle for me of like nothing will recapture that magic. And I was like, again, like I didn’t hate the second season in a way that I think like some people did. But I think this season has sort of figured out a way to have like the fun, to sort of balance all of its fun, silly attitudes in addition to the monster, scare, fight thing. And I think my problem a little bit with the second season was it was very self-serious—
Bobby: That’s true.
Esther: … and it didn’t really know how to—and this season is having a lot of fun and I like it when it gets like the sillier and the more fun that it gets.
Bobby: This was a very silly season too.
Esther: I really like—like my favorite was the Scoop Shop, all of the stuff in the Scoop Shop was great, obviously because Steve’s the best.
Bobby: Steve is the best.
Esther: Steve’s the best, but I really like—I liked the sort of romantic dramas that were going on. I think my only somewhat issues is I think some of the characters, which we could talk about later, like they have gotten into a rut and they’re just not really sure what to do with anyone.
Bobby: Nancy and what’s his face.
Esther: Nancy and what’s his face.
Bobby: Brother, older brother.
Esther: Older brother and I, for me, Hopper I think is a big one where I—
Bobby: I did not love Hopper this season.
Esther: I did not like Hopper, I did not.
Bobby: He annoyed me at the beginning and the sort of bicker-y relationship with Winona Ryder’s character didn’t feel like—I’m like, “Where they always like this? I don’t think they were.”
Esther: Yeah, and they didn’t—the sort of push to make them a ‘will they/won’t they’ I don’t think worked. And I also—I found the way that they treated his frustration with El and Mike like sort of grows in a way. And then I was like, “Ewe, he’s being—” You’re sort of supposed to side with him because he’s like the dad figure.
Joe: The dad, yeah.
Bobby: He’s taking care of her.
Esther: And but he’s sort of being horrible. So, I think there were some—so, I think those parts sort of frustrated me. But when it got sort of silly and fun and like, “Let’s go the mall.” Like that, love.
Bobby: That whole season could have taken place at that mall and I would have been fine.
Joe: For a while I—I mean, there were certain moments where I kept thinking like, “Oh, the rest of the show is just going to be in the mall. Like the next three episodes are just going to be in the mall.”
Bobby: Would have loved it.
Joe: And then it’s like, “Oh, no, the carnival, all this.” But I was like, “Oh, we’re just going to stay here and I’m okay with that. To the David Harbour point, one thing that the show doesn’t really deal with anymore, not that they really need to all the time, is that you kind of forget that in season one it was like, he’s a Vietnam veteran. Like he has PTSD.
Esther: And his kid died.
Joe: His kid died.
Esther: Like he has this whole—
Joe: Like there are—there is sort of like character explanations for his behavior with Eleven but it’s just weird that it’s played for laughs in this season. Where as like if this were happening in season one it’d be like, “Oh, this is dark. Like this is kind of dark.”
Esther: The character is so big, the character is so huge, everything is played to Eleven and so, you sort of—
Joe: Literally.
Bobby: Yeah, to Eleven.
Esther: To Eleven—God—
Bobby: Walked right into that one.
Esther: … darn it. No pun intended, genuinely. But that I think it sort of struggles to find those moments and that’s why—I mean, we’ll talk about the spoiler I guess in a little bit. But—
Bobby: Talk about it now, yeah, let’s talk about it.
Esther: … I mean, that’s why the sort of ending, his fate in the ending whether or not we think he’s really gone forever or not didn’t hit me as hard. Because there were no nuances in any of his—in any of that performance and that characterization throughout the season that by the time you reach the end it’s sort of out of nowhere and you are—and for me at least, I already felt weird about the character.
Joe: I thought Billy’s end was more affecting, weirdly, in a way. Though he’s not as nice of a character.
Esther: And the character has like barely been developed as well.
Joe: But they really did a good job of sort of like, they go into—they have Eleven go into his past—
Bobby: I really liked that.
Joe: … and they did a good job of making sure that you knew that he was not the person doing all of these actions and that Max, for all that—he has been bullying her—
Esther: Bullying her.
Joe: … still really loves him, you know? He’s here brother and I thought that connection felt more like it came across better.
Esther: Totally, totally.
Bobby: I was definitely more gutted by his death then David Harbour’s. But I was more gutted by, you know, everything that Winona Ryder had been through throughout the season. Where it’s like she’s constantly reminded by the death of her ex-boyfriend, by the Sean Astin character. Her son went missing the first season, like what a nightmare. Nothing but trauma for eight episodes. And then, here she is, the guy that ‘will they/won’t they’ and she sort of has a thing for. Although, there really wasn’t much.
Esther: It’s sort of one sided.
Bobby: Yeah, it’s one sided.
Esther: That’s the other thing is that like that never really played for me because they work well together but they didn’t really have any chemistry.
Bobby: Yeah, and I almost feel like that was the intent, where it was sort of like because she has too much to do. It’s like, “I can’t deal with you right now.” Like maybe there was a spark of something.
Joe: The magnets are falling.
Bobby: Yeah, but then—
Esther: Right, they’ve always implied that they maybe got together in high school or something.
Bobby: And maybe there was something about his death that made her deal with the fact that like maybe she did like him more than she was ever letting on. But mostly I was just like, “God, poor Winona, that sucks for you. You just keep getting the shaft in this show, like oh, my God. No wonder you’re moving.”
Esther: I would love a season with like Winona being happy for the whole season.
Joe: Would be nice, would be nice for her.
Esther: Or like having fun.
Joe: I like seeing her giving mixed up, like getting to mix it up in the action a little bit, when she was wearing the sort of Russian uniform or whatever.
Bobby: Oh, God.
Joe: I was like, “Oh, you at least get to go undercover. Like you’re on a mission, this is fun, this is kind of like—"
Bobby: Chernobyl Two, here comes Winona.
Joe: Am I the only person who Fleabag has ruined Brett Gelman forever?
Esther: No.
Joe: Not ruined but like every time I see him, I’m like, “Son of a bitch.”
Esther: No, yeah, I—
Bobby: I don’t watch Fleabag.
Joe: Oh, he plays a real shit on Fleabag.
Esther: Yeah, he—I wholeheartedly agree.
Joe: Okay and he’s very good and he like almost plays into that sense of like, “You don’t like me, it’s fine.” But like, I was just like every time I see him—
Esther: His whole mode is like, “You don’t like me.”
Joe: I’m just like, “Jackass.”
Esther: I don’t know if you ever watched Love but he was like, similarly like, ugh, gross on Love.
Bobby: I want to get back to the nostalgia stuff. So, like what were some of your favorite—because there’s something, I think like the buzz feed lovers in all of us. Like there’s something about like old packaging that does sort of warm your heart.
Joe: Every time.
Bobby: Like what was your favorite reveal. Like the old—I really loved the old Snoball packages because I feel like Hostess is so kind of iconic now and it’s like, “Oh, it used to just say like, ‘Pink Snoball Cupcake’ that’s it.” And I was like, “Oh, I like seeing this, I’ve never seen that before.”
Joe: Forever this show’s appeal to me, I was like this show was a triumph of font, above anything. With like that Stranger Things font being so loyal to like the old Stephen King paperbacks. I was like, “This is—” that sold me on the show—
Bobby: The triumph of font.
Joe: … sold me on the show before anything else.
Esther: The font.
Joe: And so, every time I see the like old Burger King signage with like the old Burger King sort of like bubble font or whatever, I’m just like, “Yes.” But that’s why the mall, I think, was so great, where I’m looking. And it was like Claire’s Boutique was next to Regis Hairstyling and I’m like, “Oh.”
Esther: Sam Goody.
Bobby: Sam Good, the old Gap logo, all of that.
Esther: The Gap, I was going to say the Gap. But that’s because it feeds into my like—I like am obsessed with Eleven’s fashion makeover. Like those shirts, like it’s not really old packaging but it’s like, would buy, like would go into Wild Thing and like buy and like—
Joe: Yeah, everything—that’s the thing I guess about like specifically our culture right now, everything that was happening to those characters in 1985 is like would be fine in 2019. Like everyone, all of us could have worn anything that anyone wears on that show and not feel the teeniest bit strange going outside in public.
Esther: Right, you walk around Brooklyn and you see those like the patterned shirts that she’s wearing and the little—the romper? Would buy, would—
Bobby: That seemed very on track, yeah.
Esther: … yeah, the romper, would purchase. Like now I can’t I guess because like she wore it on the show and then I’d be wearing a Halloween costume. But like it’s adorable. The whole look, the whole look, the whole sort of makeover sequence.
Bobby: That whole montage with—because it was Material Girl, which is like maybe my favorite sound drop of the whole season. And they were in the mall, which is my favorite location of the season. And the fact that they let Eleven be with the other kids for so much of this season. Which they really hadn’t last season at all and that she and Max get to be friends, like real like legit friends.
Joe: I loved that.
Bobby: It was one of my favorite elements.
Esther: That was one of the problems I had with the second season was, they really—it was like they really didn’t know how to like have girls interact or it felt like, “Ugh, this is a show written by men who don’t know that like women can’t always—like don’t always have to be antagonists.” And I think they heard that criticism, which a lot of people raised and were like, “Okay, like they can be friends now.”
Joe: And they did better, they did a lot better.
Bobby: And I like that—I don’t, I just can’t, there’s no show, this isn’t even a Stranger Things issue but like there’s no show about like teen romance that like I will be compelled by or interested in. I’m just like, “I don’t to see Eleven and Mike making out over and over again.” But I liked that it led to the tension, the break up, which led to Max and Eleven. And I was like, “Okay, it was all worth it now because I really love this relationship and I like that they’re friends.” Because Max kind of—you know, like you said, they didn’t know what to do with Max last season.
Esther: No, because it was like they had—they put—Eleven was away, like you weren’t supposed to know she was back. And so, Max was sort of this strange stand in for her but like also a tomboy and but also the guys sort of have—a couple of the guys have crushes on her and no one really knows what to do with it. And she was very much like a side character last season and sort of integrating her fully, I think worked really well. Honestly, like I sort of wish they had committed to that. Because like the Mike and El stuff, by the end of the season, by that point I was like, “I don’t care.”
Bobby: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah—what did we make—
Esther: I know that everybody—it’s like the shows OTP or whatever.
Bobby: … right, what did we make of that small little moment where Mike sort of calls out that Will isn’t into girls? Did we think there was a little bit of like—
Joe: Oh, I was like, “He’s gay, yeah.” I was absolutely, “He’s gay.” They’re going to—
Bobby: And I was like this is cannon now.
Joe: … next season he’s gay.
Bobby: Next season—I need the story line.
Joe: That is as explicit as the show will get. He is gay.
Bobby: But I also liked how it just played into that estrangement of—because it’s a thing that can happen with, you know, straight boys who are slower to develop also, but it’s very much this like young gay kid thing of like, “Oh, all of my friends now are into girls. And now I have to like—”
Joe: “I just want to play Dungeons and Dragons with my friends.”
Bobby: “… I just want to play Dungeons and Dragons with my friends. Why is this different? Why is this changing?” Yeah.
Esther: Also, can I say the thing that I can’t—like that I also always can’t stop thinking about whenever I see Will just speaking of like the traumas, like that kid has been through so much. And you’re just like, “My God, play Dungeons and Dragons with him. Like he has been—like he has been in the upside down, he was in like a coma, like possessed in a coma last season. Like, I don’t know, like be a little considerate.”
Bobby: Yeah, he just keeps getting goosebumps. Like come on.
Joe: Right, yes, yes, the back of his neck will never be the same.
Bobby: Oh, my God and like his poor mom, like that’s what he goes home to every night, please. Another thing I put in here is that we had sort of a pseudo villain, Cary Elwes.
Joe: Cary Elwes, yeah.
Esther: I wish they spent more time with that, right?
Bobby: I wish they spent more time with him too. I love like an evil mayor character. But also, I was like, “Oh, it’s Matthew Modine, oh wait, no it’s not.” I felt like maybe they could have picked a brunette or someone who was not graying. He looked way too much like Matthew Modine.
Joe: I didn’t recognize that until you mentioned that but then that’s all I could see.
Esther: Yeah, it’s not a thing that was—but yeah, you’re right.
Bobby: It was just Matthew Modine again. It was like we need another Matthew Modine type, who is it? It’s—the list is Cary Elwes, like that’s who it is. But I was happy to see him, I always—I just really like him.
Esther: I love him.
Joe: He’s very good.
Bobby: And I love him against Type Two.
Esther: Yeah, I love his transition. Like he’s had such a strange career like because he was so princely for so long and so, like it is—and that is still like, speaking of what’s in your head, that’s still what’s in your head whenever you think of him.
Bobby: Of course, yeah.
Esther: And so, it is always fun. And now, I feel like he mostly plays like against type but it’s just that it’s—
Bobby: But you almost have to.
Esther: … it’s just that his type has changed. It’s just, it’s just—you know, you always have this like, “Oh, romantic.”
Bobby: It’s like what happened to Anthony Michael Hall. Like after being the nerdy like mediator.
Esther: Yeah, then he was the bully.
Bobby: Inside like, he was like, “I have to be evil now.”
Joe: He had to go so hard against that.
Bobby: Like I have to be full blown evil.
Joe: Oh, you know what that made me think of?
Esther: Edward Scissorhands.
Joe: Yes, well, yeah because he was in that movie where he played the football star, Johnny Be Good. Which he co-starred with Uma Thurman, which made me think—
Esther: Maya Hawke.
Bobby: How have we not talked about Maya Hawke.
Joe: … of Maya Hawke.
Esther: Maya Hawke, who sounds exactly like her mom.
Joe: And I didn’t realize that connection until you mentioned it and then all of sudden, I’m looking at her, I’m like, “Oh, yeah, she sounds exactly like her mom.”
Bobby: That’s exactly what I said. When I realized it was Maya Hawke, it was maybe episode six and then I like just thought about it. And then, like she was in, doing a scene, it was the scene when she comes out. And I was like, “Wait, you sound exactly like Uma Thurman and you sound like Ethan Hawke sometimes and you look just like your mom. How did I not notice this?”
Joe: Also, she’s really good. I like her.
Esther: She’s really great, yeah.
Bobby: Her at the video store at the end was maybe my favorite where she’s just like talking Steve into a job.
Joe: Yeah, it was so good.
Bobby: It was so good. I want, also, just a whole season of them working in a video store.
Joe: The video store.
Esther: Yeah, love that. I don’t know, I’ve been following her for a bit because she was in a PBS adaptation of Little Women which will be lost to time because of the Great Gerwig Little Women.
Bobby: It’s true, it’s true.
Esther: But she was really good in it and when I—and so, I watched that like all the way through already, where I already—where that’s where I had those moments of like, “Holy shit, you sound exactly like your mom. This is weird, uncanny valley, stuff.” But I like I—the whole Scoop, Scoops Ahoy, that was great.
Bobby: So cute.
Joe: The part where Steve is yelling at the Russians, being like, “I work at Scoops Ahoy, what about this uniform like do you not understand? I don’t normally wear this.”
Bobby: So, the show was so like light hearted and it’s like nostalgia heavy and it’s like, “Look how cute, look how wonderful these friends are. Like they’re so nice to each other.” This is such a nice little show sometimes, you kind of forget—and you think of it as a family show if only because it’s about kids. But like every time there’s an act of extreme violence I’m very shocked. I’m like, “Oh, right, this is a Netflix show, they can get violent.” And this show gets extremely violent. What are your thoughts on the violence of the show?
Esther: I’m fine with it when it is like the old woman eating the rat fertilizer and the sort of grossness of it. Like this season got real gross, like the monster was disgusting, the rat exploding.
Joe: The exploding rat.
Bobby: Oh, the exploding rats, ugh.
Esther: The exploding rats were disgusting. Where I actually had a little bit of a problem with it this season was—and it comes back to Hopper—
Joe: I know what you’re going to say.
Esther: … was like, I mean, that scene where he beats up Cary Elwes.
Bobby: Cary, yeah.
Esther: And like—and like a lot of the sort of like, “Ugh, he—” You know, they’re trying to do—they were doing like Rambo and Terminator and like all of that stuff this season, like that literally had a character that’s basically the Terminator. But that stuff, especially when it bothers me a little bit because I don’t—because it takes it into a realm, like the beating up Cary Elwes scene, where it’s not—it doesn’t feel like a fantasy anymore. Like when you’re seeing someone pummeling someone’s face, it’s a little like—I get the, what you’re trying to play with. But this doesn’t really feel like it fits within the tone of the show. It doesn’t really—it also didn’t really feel like it fit within the tone of the character, which was one of the other problems, which sort of gets back to my larger problem. But that’s where I find it like, do the gross stuff, do the alien—
Joe: Sci-fi violence is different from—
Esther: Do the alien sci-fi, like people bursting out of people’s stomachs and things. Don’t do the like, the Rambo, Sylvester Stallone type of violence.
Bobby: That’s the thing. And it plays into the nostalgia stuff too. And like, I like ‘80’s nostalgia for like the—like monster movies and stuff like that. I don’t need nostalgia for Commando or Predator. That scene towards the end, where Hopper takes the machine gun and like mows down the Russians. I’m like, “I don’t need to fetishize gun violence, that’s a thing about the ‘80’s that I don’t think we need to be doing right now.”
Joe: That was when I like wrote that note. I was like, when he pulled out the gun I was like, “Ugh.”
Esther: Yeah, I feel like—well—
Joe: That’s murder.
Esther: … I don’t know, this was something I was thinking a lot about when watching it this season. Was, honestly, Jordan Peele’s move, Us, threw a lot of the like ‘80’s nostalgia into like high relief for me. Like thinking about that movie and it’s a lot to talk about. But that I think that movie sort of looks at the nostalgia that I think something like Stranger Things really promoted and been like, “There’s like a—like the ‘80’s wasn’t all like fun and games. They weren’t all hanging out with your friends. There were, you know, there was a lot of suffering in the ‘80’s, there was a lot of, you know—the Reagan era was full of horrors, in many respects.” And so, some of the violence of that sort—some of the violence that we’re talking about done in this fun way made me feel gross about the show and the way that I was thinking about it. Like when I was thinking about like Us and how that frames the dark side of nostalgia, if that makes sense.
Bobby: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Esther: I’m just curious to hear your thoughts, I don’t know if this is taking to long.
Bobby: No.
Esther: But what you felt about the Russian plotline.
Bobby: I thought they had a lot of fun with it and I loved the scene when they were like, “It’s a Russian, we have to get him.” Because the ‘80’s were all about like Russian antagonists.
Esther: Yeah, I mean they reference Red Dawn.
Bobby: Like we’re scared of Russians. I love that reveal that he was just the jazzercise instructor, I actually laughed at that, that was great.
Esther: That was great. I love Alexi.
Bobby: Yeah, but I think because Alexi was such a sweetie pie that like I felt the Russian thing was fine.
Esther: It offset, like, yeah.
Bobby: And also, like that’s as nostalgic as New Coke in a way. Like Russian involvement is like as big of an ‘80’s thing as New Coke.
Esther: Yeah, I think so. Of my like Americans loving brain is a little bit like, “Aww, but like, you know, they are people too and they have their own—they’re evil but they have their dramas.” So, some of my brain was like, “Ah.”
Bobby: But sort of like in the ‘90’s so many action movies were like, “Germans are bad.” Like we’ve moved to Germans, it’s like, “Germans are the evil ones.” But in the ‘80’s it was Russians, what was your take on the Russian thing?
Joe: I thought it was—I think anything with Russians now has this sort of connotation of you always think of like current events in a way that I don’t love. And part of me also was just sort of like, “They just want to be communist.” Like, you know what I mean? It was just sort of like—
Esther: That’s the Americans part of my brain that’s like, you know?
Joe: Right, just let them be communist and please, it’s like—
Esther: What are Phillip and Elizabeth doing during this.
Joe: Yeah, I thought it was fine. I thought, you know, you needed to have an antagonist who were people. I sometimes would just rather they default to shadowy American government figures because we have enough of that kind of paranoia anyway.
Esther: Also, I still don’t totally understand. I mean, like I guess it’s because they opened the upside down or whatever, but I don’t totally understand how all of it like came together and was connected.
Joe: Me either, me either.
Bobby: I stopped trying, it was—
Joe: I think that’s a good place to end because I would occasionally find myself frustrated with the actual plot, where I was just like, “I don’t really know what the—” Like and especially like the fact that the Russians are trying to reopen this thing when Billy, you know, the avatar for the whatever—
Esther: The Flayer.
Joe: … The Flayer. Has explicitly said, “My goal is to like kill everyone.” It’s like, “Well, then why does Russia want to open this up? Like why do they even think that they could turn this into a weapon or something? When this thing has a mind of its own and has told you, “I want you dead.”” It’s like, what’s the point of opening it? And I’ve stopped thinking about that.
Bobby: It’s better that way.
Esther: And also, all of the stuff with like Billy and the lifeguard girl and it’s like, “Are they still—” Like I didn’t understand and I guess the finale with Billy sort of like makes it. But like, “Yes, real Billy is still in there.” But I didn’t totally understand, are they just killing people? Like who is in all of that?
Joe: Right, because it seemed like for a second like it was going to become a Body Snatchers kind of a thing.
Bobby: That’s what I thought.
Joe: You don’t know who is real and who is whatever. One thing I wanted to say for if we talk about season four that I would like them to continue, they do a flash at the end of blaming Satanism for the weird things. And that was such a thing in the late ‘80’s of like blaming like Dungeons and Dragons as a Satanic thing. And like I feel like if they want to explore that vein in terms of like the outside world sort of freaking out about that kind of stuff and like have Nancy work at like a daytime talk show. You know what I mean?
Bobby: Oh, my God, yeah.
Joe: Like a Phil Donahue kind of thing because there was a lot of that kind of stuff.
Bobby: And I like that they sort of—they sort of teased because of that like Current Affair-y sort of thing. Now that the world knows about Hawkins, what are people going to do about it? Like are they going to bring in the Satanic stuff and stuff like that?
Joe: A Current Affair, I love that.
Esther: This whole season I kept thinking about like the sort of Buffy, Sunnydale syndrome thing of like why people stay. But like they never really did like, “Oh, no.” They’re like, “The public knows about like the demons.”
Joe: Right, now, yeah, now that it’s out.
Bobby: And this is really the extreme version of my problem with Big Little Lies season two, which is like, “Why do they all still fucking live in Monterey? Why don’t they leave?” After what happened in season one, why didn’t they all pack up and Winona Ryder their way out of there.
Esther: The school system is so good though.
Bobby: But I’m really excited about season four because I just feel like, if you asked me at the end of season one, I would have said, “This is going to get old really quickly. What a fun season but like I’m going to get sick of this.” And now, I’m just like, I don’t skip the credits, I love seeing that like, [sound]. Like I love the noises, I love all of it. It’s just like, it’s so satisfying and I can’t remember the last time I like was that pleased with watching something all the way through like I did with this. Like I never do that, I at least split it up over a few days. I’m like, “I watched all of Stranger Things in a day.” I was like, “I’m done here, this is—I got to see what happens, it’s satisfying.”
Joe: Eight episodes seemed perfect too.
Esther: It’s nice having something—like I’m sort of, I feel like a little bit mixed on this season but it’s also nice having something that is also pure fun. I think is the—so little is like on TV is just pure fun. Like maybe except for like Riverdale or something but that’s like too many episodes to deal with.
Bobby: It’s too much.
Esther: And it’s like two issues, so it’s like—it is having something that—and that’s why when you talk about like the violence and stuff, that’s like, “I don’t want that, I don’t want that in this show. I want it to be silly.”
Bobby: Stranger Things season four, if you—if the Duffer brothers were like, “Esther, Joe, you’re in charge this season—” I just want to ask a dumb little, fun little exercise question. What would your mall be in season four? What would your setting be and what would your big song be, your big ‘80’s song? The big fun, closing ‘80’s song, where would it be set? If not a mall, maybe a video store.
Joe: Okay, I know my song. I was going to say I love the video store; I don’t know how you could do a whole season in a video store. Unless it’s this very like—it’s a siege thing and they’re just like—they have to, you know, they’re holed up in there and whatever. But my song would be the John Parr, St. Elmo’s Fire song. St. Elmo’s Fire, I just feel like that’s one where you could just be like, “That feels triumphant but also very dated, in a way that I really like.”
Bobby: Let’s just do song, what’s your song?
Esther: Yeah, because I can’t think of a good location. My song would be, Kate Bush, Running Up That Hill.
Joe: Good call, I like that.
Bobby: That’d be fun. Mine would be, just because it’s fun, I like anytime it’s in something, Bronski Beat, Small Town Boy, that one’s very fun.
Joe: Very good, yes.
Bobby: It’s a whole lot of fun. And it’s July 4th, everyone’s listening to this, maybe some people listening to this on July 4th. But like July 4th is the most fun holiday, I love July 4th, it’s one of my favorite—it’s like my favorite non-winter holiday. I always have a good time and like, that’s what the show is, fireworks. Like, carousels, like monsters and evil Russians, but like fun evil Russians. Like it’s fun, it’s fun with them.
Esther: It’s so character—like it’s such a character. I also am excited to see these kids like get older; I think. Like I think it did a really good job maturing them this year. And I think like the, you know, farther you go into like some of the, you know, like the dramas of the mall, great.
Joe: Love that mall.
Bobby: And I think I’ll just close by saying—maybe I’ll play the music, if I get permission. When that We Can be Hero’s started playing again—was it the—it’s the Phil Collins, not Phil Collins—
Joe: Peter Gabriel.
Bobby: … Peter Gabriel cover of—our friend Richard, when I was talking to him about this season I was like, “You know what, I fucking love that. The end of that season was so good, it really got me.” And he said, “And what time of day did it take place?” Because his thing is like, the best endings are late afternoon. And I was like, “Oh, my God, it was late afternoon, it ended late afternoon.”
Joe: Perfect.
Bobby: It was perfect.
Joe: That’s perfect.
Bobby: What a fun show. Well, thank you for being here.
Esther: Thank you.
Joe: Thank you.
Bobby: Talking about Stranger Things with me. What a fun season.
Esther: Thank you.
Bobby: We will see you in two weeks with another episode of I’m Obsessed with This, maybe earlier, who knows? And Happy 4th of July.
Esther: Happy 4th of July.
Joe: Happy 4th of July.
Bobby: Yeah, bye.
Esther: Bye.
[Music]