Today on I'm Obsessed With This, Bobby Finger talks to Call Your Girlfriend co-host and author of the forthcoming book Big Friendship, Ann Friedman (@annfriedman), who shares her expert opinion on the new Netflix original film, Tall Girl. As someone who has spent much of her life being the tallest person in the room, Friedman discusses her high school experience (which included "listening to Mazzy Star and Googling height reduction surgery"), reveals how often people comment on her height (Every. Single. Day), and plays a game about -- what else? -- tall girls. As always, avoid the episode if you wish to avoid spoilers. And watch Tall Girl now on Netflix!
Today on I'm Obsessed With This, Bobby Finger talks to Call Your Girlfriend co-host and author of the forthcoming book Big Friendship, Ann Friedman (@annfriedman), who shares her expert opinion on the new Netflix original film, Tall Girl. As someone who has spent much of her life being the tallest person in the room, Friedman discusses her high school experience (which included "listening to Mazzy Star and Googling height reduction surgery"), reveals how often people comment on her height (Every. Single. Day), and plays a game about -- what else? -- tall girls.
As always, avoid the episode if you wish to avoid spoilers. And watch Tall Girl now on Netflix!
[Music]
Bobby: Welcome to I'm Obsessed With This, the Netflix podcast about the shows and films viewers can’t get enough of, sort of like how the criminally underrated Steve Zahn can’t get enough of playing supporting roles instead of lead ones. He deserves them. I’m your host, Bobby Finger. And today I am joined by Anne Freedman, writer of the cohost of Call Your Girlfriend and co-author of the forthcoming book Big Friendship. Hello, Anne.
Anne: Hello.
Bobby: How’s Los Angeles. Thanks for being with me today.
Anne: I’m here. Los Angeles is a little bit gray, which is my favorite morning mode in Los Angeles personally. So I’m doing wonderfully.
[Music]
Bobby: Last time we had an L.A. resident in New York, so I was in the same room with her. But we’ve been doing a lot of call-ins to Los Angeles. And usually when I ask how it is, they’re like, “It’s wonderful. I love it.” So I’m very proud of you for living in the town that everyone always loves.
Anne: You know what, though? Not everyone. I will just say this is that I love it and I have been very happy here from pretty much the moment I moved and set foot here. But I recognize that it is, it is not everyone’s thing. So I don’t really, I think that, like, maybe in the middle of winter it’s more everyone’s thing for some obvious reasons, but especially now, which is like our extended, sad, like, really, really hot tail-end of summer that, like, you’re just like, “Why am I still sweating when everything is tweed on the internet?” It is really not the sexiest time to live here.
Bobby: Are you drinking, do you have any beverages? Or it’s morning for you.
Anne: I’m drinking coffee.
Bobby: It’s afternoon for me.
Anne: I’m drinking hot coffee, which is like a gray morning choice. I mean the cold brew comes out of the fridge when it’s a sunny morning.
Bobby: Do you make the cold brew hot? Do you heat up the cold brew and add hot water to it?
Anne: No. I mean the tod, the toddy, the toddy cold brew is—oh, god. Listen to me, like, I’m like, I would take a toddy sponsorship for CYG, though. The toddy cold brew is just for cold beverages. And then I have separate, a separate situation for hot coffee.
Bobby: Because people put their cold brew concentrate with hot water and they drink it hot and I find that very bizarre, but I know it’s a thing.
Anne: It’s a thing. And I think it’s a fine thing. I don’t know. I mean, like, who, I don’t know much about coffee physics. I’m not like a, you know, whatever. I’m like do what suits you is how I feel about that.
Bobby: Today you joined the podcast to talk about a new Netflix original film Tall Girl, but before we get into Tall Girl, what have you been watching on Netflix lately that isn’t Tall Girl?
Anne: Okay. Well, there are, there are some separate—there are many things I’m watching on Netflix. So I’m going to be totally honest with you. The thing that I find myself talking about to everyone is Dairy Girls, which I definitely had heard of before the first season came to Netflix, but, so it was an anticipated watch for me before season 1. And then I had also hotly anticipated season 2. In part because apparently, I love any, anything with “girl” in the title. I will watch anything. Also because I love a super-regional coming-of-age story. Like, anything that is—
Bobby: Super-regional.
Anne: I mean it is. It is a hyper-regional coming-of-age story where, you know, these four girls and one boy, I guess, are growing up in Dairy in Northern Ireland in the mid to late ‘90s, which, you know, a place, a time and place of political interest. It's also a time and place of personal interest. My partner is from Dairy and was a teenager in the mid to late ‘90s, and it’s allowing me, like, the show—aside from being sort of like a, like I said, a delightful, like, here are just some teen girls misbehaving kind of story, which I love. No matter where it’s set. It is really allowing me to do, to do a thing that can be very difficult. So, like, all right. When you are, someone in your life is, like, you know, raised in a situation that’s very different than you, do you ever find yourself going, like, “Huh, is this your personality? Is this just a word you like to use? Or a quirk? Or is this some kind of larger regionalism? I mean, like, does everyone from Texas say whatever like Bobby does?” You know that sort of—like I sort of, it’s not like I spend hours lying awake at night thinking about this, but I am, I am just very interested—
Bobby: It comes up.
Anne: Exactly. And in the same way that I’m interested, like, for myself in what is, what sort of, like, the water that I didn’t know was wet around me when I was, like, you know, a little fish growing up, and what was, what is my personality, or what was weird or unique to me? So Dairy Girl is not only entertaining as television, but it allows me to kind of gain some, gain some insights into what is the broader cultural moment, and what is specific to this person who I spend a lot of time with, and who I’ve heard tell a lot of stories about this part of the world at this time.
Bobby: What are some of the, like, most significant idiosyncrasies that you’ve noticed in the Dairy Girls, and your partner?
Anne: Hmm, well some of it is just slang terminology, which as a words person I delight in. Like, you know, every once in a while, this word will just come up. Like he described something as “mingen” [phonetic], which is like—
Bobby: Mingen?
Anne: Mingen. Like, and I think it was—he described a cloud of gnats or a cloud of bugs as, like, their mingen. Like kind of like a gross thing swirling around. I don’t know that this was the actual definition. But then the word was used at Dairy Girls, or they do things like, they go on this, like, in the season 2, which is sort of the more recent one, they do a kind of, like, cross-cultural exchange program. The Dairy Girls in question are Catholic. My partner is—
Bobby: It’s a Catholic school?
Anne: Catholic school. There is a, like, head mistress character, a nun who I delight in. I don’t know. Have you watched the show, Bobby?
Bobby: I haven’t watched it. And I know, I know there’s only, like, 12 episodes of it and I need to watch it because I’ve been told by, you know, countless people that it’s great.
Anne: I mean it’s, like, UK length series, so you can really just knock it out in one, in one American sitting. But, yeah. So they, the girls in question, the dairy girls in question are Catholic. My partner is Protestant, although his mother is Catholic. His father is Protestant. But for the purposes of, you know, dairy demo was, you know, raised in, like, went to what was considered a Protestant school. And so the girls in the television show participate in, like, an exchange program sort of thing where they have to be in the same room as a bunch of Protestants and try to find common ground in clearly something that’s funded by some kind of NGO and led by schoolmasters and nuns and priests. And that’s one of those things where I had to hit pause and be like, “Did you do this? Like really?” And the answer was yes. I mean, and there’s also a kind of, the background of this show is that there’s also very real, you know, violence and sectarian issues happening in the background of just, like, these teens trying to.
Bobby: Northern Ireland.
Anne: Right. Trying to get drunk and, like, whatever. And so, you know, there’s a scene in the first season where they are riding the bus to school, and a bunch of soldiers get on the bus and kind of, like, sniff around and look at everyone. And, like, I know for a fact that, like, my partner had to go through a military checkpoint every day to go to school. And it’s, like, the way it’s normalized in that show is the way that he talks about it in this sort of normalized way where it’s, like, if you had made me go through a military checkpoint, you know, just drop that into my childhood, obviously I would be like, “This is absolutely terrifying.” So there’s some more serious things.
Bobby: What else has been going on, on your Netflix queue?
Anne: My kind of forever, like let’s say I’m traveling for work. Let’s say I’m, like the kind of comfort watch that I turn to again and again is Ms. Fisher’s Murder Mysteries. Has someone talked about this on the show before?
Bobby: No, what is this? I don’t even know what this is.
Anne: What?
Bobby: I truly don’t know what this is.
Anne: You are not friends with many single women in their 30s and 40s, or, like, is this a regionalism? Like I don’t know.
Bobby: No, I am, is the thing. Ms. Fisher’s Murder Mysteries? No, what is this? Australian? Oh, they’re filled with great ideas.
Anne: Yes. So this is an Australian show featuring a short of amateur. I don’t know if she’s technically—her vibe is amateur detective named Phryne Fisher. She is, like, quit-witted. She’s got a bob that, you know, is very, like, early 2000’s feminist/flapper. And she is, so a few things happen in every episode. You know? She finds herself in some kind of, like, glamorous jazz-age situation. She is usually wearing a flowing garment of some kind. She almost always manages to sleep with a much younger man, and it’s sort of gratuitously thrown in there, like, really not relevant to the plot at all. And then she solves a really low-stakes murder. Like, you know, a countess is murdered or something like that. It’s like, “Who cares?” Right? Like it’s very, it’s not the kind of like—I don’t do true crime in the kind of, like—
Bobby: Oh, I don’t either.
Anne: Right. I don’t true crime podcast sets. I don’t really do, I don’t do, like, CSI or Law and Order Murder even. But, like, I would hesitate to even call it stylized. Because really it’s just an excuse to have her parachute into new situations and be witty.
Bobby: Is it, like, Murder She Wrote where she’s solving this, like, weird number of murders that are always happening in the same town? Or is she going around Australia?
Anne: Well, she is based in Melbourne. But it is not, there are definitely a few, there are a few episodes that are set, you know, around, around. I don’t really know. I don’t pay attention to the setting. It doesn’t matter. I am truly just paying attention to, like, her—it’s sort of the pleasure of, like, you know when you watch, you watch an old movie. You know? Like you pick something deep from, like, the Katherine Hepburn archive. And you’re like, “The plot of this is garbage. Like there’s really nothing here.”
Bobby: I never watch Katherine Hepburn.
Anne: I’m here to watch Katherine Hepburn and I’m here to watch Phryne Fisher and that is truly, that’s truly a deep pleasure I have. It really takes me back to the, like reading my grandmother’s Agatha Christy books as a child. Like it’s a very deep, deep comforting pleasure.
Bobby: This is going to take precedence over Dairy Girls to me. I’ve got to watch this immediately.
Anne: Please text me when you do.
Bobby: And now we’re going to talk about Tall Girl. When—you were going to, you were going to watch something else. And then, or maybe you had made a decision and then suddenly you were like, “NO, in all caps, I’m doing Tall Girl.” The trailer had just come out. And you were like, “This is what I’m watching.” What about the trailer for Tall Girl spoke to you? Why did you have to watch it?
Anne: I mean, sort of what I was saying earlier about regionally specific coming-of-age stories involving girls. I’m like, “This is not regionally specific, but it is highly demographically specific in that I am an inch taller than these 6-foot one protagonist of this movie. And she very clearly, like, you know, her height is mentioned in the trailer. But I’m also, you know, I don’t know if you feel this way. But, like, the closer something is to me, kind of like demographically or, like, experientially, the more, the more I need to watch it. You know? Because I feel like I have all these data points of, like, “Are you doing it right? Are you telling the story the way I would tell this story.” So that was the all caps appeal.
Bobby: This is a frustrating comparison, but it’s sort of the reason I kept on watching Girls, a show that I liked kind of initially and then I grew to dislike. But I never stopped watching it because I was like, “This is sort of my demographic.” Especially, like, considering the fact that I lived down the street from where the main character lives in Girls. Like I was like, I have to keep watching this because I need to make sure that this is correct.
Anne: My, well my theory is that’s why that show caused so much outrage is because a lot of people who were writing about it, and people who were in media who get to, like, you know, have a conversation about this sort of thing publicly felt very, very close to, like, as you say, these are the places I go, or this is, these are, you know, these people kind of on paper—
Bobby: They’re people you know.
Anne: Yeah. Seem like my friends. And it allows for this level of judgment that you just can’t pass on something that feels very removed from your experience. Like truly. So anyway, so that’s why I was like, “I must watch this, and pass judgment/compare in my new detail the way that this teen rom com portrays an experience that I had.”
Bobby: Were you tall in high school? Or did your growth spurt happen later?
Anne: I have been 6’2” tall since I was 12. So, you know, I really don’t know life in any other body. You know, I, there’s sort of a montage in the Tall Girl movie of her being the tallest kid in her elementary school classes, which was definitely true for me as well. Like I was, I towered over my 5th grade teacher. But there, the reason why I feel like it’s kind of a trope that is interesting in a teen rom com setting is, like, really if you are a girl who is sexually attracted to boys, who is really, really a lot bigger than every single boy, that is more of an issue than, like, just feeling awkward in your fifth grade school photo, or whatever. You know, and for all reasons of, like, adolescents, like, coming into sexuality, etc. And, you know, we’ve selected, frankly, a kind of, like, appropriate, age-appropriate—I’m air-quoting—version of, like, how these feelings play out. And we’re going to only show you what happens, like, outside your bedroom. You know?
Bobby: Right. Yeah.
Anne: Yeah.
Bobby: The PG-13 version.
Anne: Yeah, exactly. I will say this. It’s like, you know, I also recognize with the benefit of adult hindsight, too, that, like, there is this aspect of—at least my teen years—of taking the, what I, what I identified as, like, my main point of adversity, or the thing that people made me feel about and bullied me about, and really extrapolated, like, a greater sense of, like, under-dogness, for lack of a better word, or like a greater sense of—or a greater lack of privilege than I really had because I was sort of all in my feelings about this one aspect of my physicality. And I thought it was extremely interesting, like, when the trailer came out and people were like, “Oh, come on. Your biggest problem is that you’re really tall and white and thin and pretty have big feet? Like that’s your problem?” And I think that’s a fair criticism. And I also think that, like, it sort of rings true to my myopic teen existence that this one physical trait that really literally set me apart was something that I focused on, probably to the detriment of me recognizing bigger truths about the world.
Bobby: And bullying was a, was that a problem for you? Because my, I’m tall. I’m 6’5”. I did not get this tall until later in my teens. And also tall boys are not bullied as much as tall girls for being tall. I was bullied for a host of other things, but height had nothing to do with it. But my mother is a little over 6 feet tall, 6’1”. And when she remembers her high school experience—if she listens to this podcast, I’m sorry for bringing it up. You can skip ahead a few seconds—I haven’t even talked about it much with her because it really, I mean in a sincere way, it breaks her heart to remember her high school experience because it was so miserable for her. People were so mean to her, just for being tall. And she, when she talks about it, like, she finds it hard to tell me stories about it because it was so miserable for her. I was seeing comments about this trailer back when it came out. And people were saying, “You know, teens don’t bully other teens for being tall.” But the real thing is, teens bully other teens for being anything.
Anne: Anything different.
Bobby: This is just one of those things. Yeah. What we’re, did you get, how’s the weather up there?
Anne: I didn’t. I mean I think it was, it was like more along the lines of, like, general freak insults. Like it was, you know, like it wasn’t, it wasn’t that. “How’s the weather up there?” is more like my parents’ generation comment. Like my dad, who is 6’7”, will get, “How’s the weather up there?” But that’s the other weird thing about this movie. Her parents are short. I’m like, “You know what? This stuff is kind of genetic.” Like it’s a very weird, like, it’s a very weird plot choice. But yeah. But I will say that, like, one thing that I felt like was a missed opportunity is it’s not so much kids in school who were terrible, especially when I was, like, junior high and I was real, I mean I was the tallest person in my junior high. Like taller than all the teachers. That was one thing. But I really feel what was more, what led to more of those, “Oh god. Like I’m just going to listen to some Maisie Star and google ‘height reduction surgery’ or whatever she’s doing.” That I was like, “Oh, this rings true.” Even though, even though google was, like, not as much a thing when I was 16. The thing that made me want to do that is having strangers comment on my body, which is something that really happens to this day. Like people who are not actively bullying me, but people who are stepping out of their role as, like, strangers who have nothing to do with me, to intervene and ask how tall I am. That really had—
Bobby: All the time?
Anne: All the—I mean literally I cannot leave my house. That had a more profound impact on me, honestly, than the more kind of direct bullying that, I mean some of this is maybe going to a small school and being from a relatively small town where at a certain age everyone just knows that’s who you are and that’s your body. And it might be, it might be like, “Oh, god. Like, you know, who would date her?” Or it might be like, “Let’s ask her to dance as a joke.” Like things that did happen to me. But it’s really more, like, accepted or, like, acknowledged. You don’t, you don’t have to constantly be, like, it’s not constantly called out because there are just not that many kids.
Bobby: You’re not inundated with Swedish exchange students. You know?
Anne: I mean, no. I really like, I mean so, yes. So I suppose we should say that plot-wise, the, what’s going on is that this, the tall girl in question has a, like, a Ducky-esque, like a pretty-in-pink Ducky-esque friend who wants to date her. You know, and kind of like both toxic and appealing in all the ways that Ducky was as well. I mean they really got the profile. That, anyway. So childhood friend who long had a crush on her, she has a relentlessly upbeat black best friend. There was a makeover montage involving her beauty queen sister. This Swedish foreign exchange student comes who lives with Ducky’s family. And then at the end she shows up at prom in, like, Blake Lively, a Simple Favor-esque suit and delivers an impassioned speech while wearing heels. So that is roughly the plot. There’s kind of like a love triangle, blah, blah, blah, with Ducky and the Swede. Yeah, there were no Swedish.
Bobby: And the mean girl.
Anne: And the mean girl. Oh, right. There’s a mean girl. Yeah, I totally forgot about her. See? I’m so focused on, like, what is my experience of this story. I’m like, “There’s other girls in this movie?” Anyway, so that’s what’s going on. And there were no Swedish foreign exchange students in Iowa, in my town in Iowa. I will say that.
Bobby: Even though this is just like every other movie, I think that you are allowed, with some formula like this—whether it’s a rom com, whether it’s a teen romance, just a teen comedy—they’re all the same. It’s just a question of perspective and location. And these are two new things. There’s rarely been a rom com set in high school from the perspective of a tall person whose biggest problem is, “I’m tall.” I can’t, I honestly don’t know that that’s ever happened before. And usually they’re not set in New Orleans. So I’ll take it. Going off that, what is your kind of favorite teen movie? Like what was the one that spoke to you the most, the loudest, when you were a teen?
Anne: I mean, I obviously watched the, like, John Hughes, like the Molly Ringwald, John Hughes, like, trilogy—
Bobby: 5-8.
Anne: Yeah. I mean, like, not a, not a, not a coincidence that, you know, it’s like we’re referencing characters from those movies. I did watch those movies. And what’s funny about both of those and watching Tall Girl is, like, our Tall Girl protagonist, like, really kind of wants to be more, like, beauty queen mainstream. Like, you know, that is really where her heart lies. And I think one reason why I was more into, say, like a Molly Ringwald Pretty In Pink is that she, her reaction to not being, like, a cool kid at her high school is to kind of like do her whole, do her own thing. You know? Right? Like, you know, she’s like, “I’m going to, like, drive my weird car and, like, wear my amazing, like, hand-made fashions that Annie Potts has helped me with.” You know what I mean? Like, she’s very, like, that I found to be aspirational. And I really think that that is more where, I mean, like, I would, was not giving an impassioned speech at the prom because I was, like, fuck prom. Like am I allowed to say that?
Bobby: Yes.
Anne: Yes. Yeah. And I think that, like, that speaks to, like, you know, no matter what you are kind of bullied for, you are presented with an option, which is to double-down on whatever trait you were being singled out for, and really kind of find some kind of power in whatever sets you apart from your bullies, or you can really try hard to, like, I don’t know, like get them to like you, or feel about the—I don’t know. I really just always felt that the Molly Ringwald, like I’m going to go hang out with Annie Potts now. Bye. Like was much more my speed.
Bobby: My favorite ones were the John Hughes ones, too. I loved The Breakfast Club, even though I could relate to so little of The Breakfast Club. I saw myself as like a Michael Hall character, even though I wasn’t brutalized the way he was in high school. But he was still the one that I reached out to. Like you grab to the characters who are the closest, even if they’re not quite right. You know? Like you’ll take what you can get in a way.
Anne: That is why that movie has really stood up for so long is that there are—I mean it’s still extremely limited, but it’s like basically, like, choose your fighter from these, like, high school tropes. And I think that that is—I mean that’s sort of exactly what you were describing. Is, like, it doesn’t have to just be centered on one of those people. And I have to say, I also, that’s one reason why I really, you know, for other obvious reasons, like, I like movies centered around friendships. But one thing I really like, is like, okay, if you’re centering the story around a relationship than you get to bring in, like, you get the chance to fully draw more than one type of teen hardship. And, yeah. And so I really—it’s funny because before Tall Girl came out, I was really loving that the Anna—is her name Anna in Pen15? The, yeah, I think so. Right?
Bobby: I haven’t watched Pen15. No, I’m not a Pen15 watcher.
Anne: Wow.
Bobby: I know. I know.
Anne: I feel very positively about Pen15. Anyway. I think, I think her name is Anna. So the, of the two friends, you know, they play, they are women in their early 30s who play their, like, 13-year-old selves. And so they are, one of them in particular is, like, extremely, like, tall. Like the way her body looks in relation to the people is, like, sort of played for comic effect on the show. But I’m like, “That is exactly how, like, the physical, my physical self was in relation to the people I was friends with.”
Bobby: You were Tall Girl in all of school. It was brought up all the time. And you said that even currently people bring it up, strangers on the street, grocery store, whatever. That happens to me a lot. Every few weeks someone will just be like, “How tall are you?” And it’s like this tone that you’re, like, “I don’t know why you’re accosting me right now. But, yeah. I’m 6’5”.” And then there’s no follow-up. You answer and then they’re like, “Okay. See ya.” When did that sort of stop for you? When you went on to college did, was there some sort of, like, temporary or a long-term reprieve? Like where older people, so to speak, a little more kind and less confrontational about your height? Or did that just never end?
Anne: It has never stopped for me. It is more, one of my very favorite things about New York City is it’s the least number of height comments per capita I have ever received. And New York is notable as well, because when I pass people on the street, rather than kind of, like, open-mouth stare, they look immediately to my feet to see how high my heels are. That is a, the thing that happens only in New York. And I love New York for it. It is my, you now, after, like, bagels and people I love who live there, like that is my number one favorite thing about New York City. And I get fewer comments in Los Angeles than I do in other places. But, like, as soon as I’m in a suburb or a rural area, it’s like, it’s going to happen the minute I leave my home, friend’s home, hotel room, whatever. And it’s funny that you say that because I have, I’ve thought a lot about why do people just me for this number? Like people approaching you and saying, “How tall are you?” And then walking away. And now I sort of have a standard response where—well, there’s a couple of options. One is I sort of say, “Why are you so interested?”
Bobby: Oh, that’s good.
Anne: Like I’m really, I am actually curious about why they want to know this number. And, you know, and every once in a while, people will say, like, “Oh, my niece is really tall, and I want to know if you’re taller than she is.” Or sometimes they’ll be like, “I want to know if you’re taller than my husband.”
Bobby: Why?
Anne: Exactly. Why? The only, the only people who I do not look at with absolute, like, you know, withering pity, are people who are, women who are sort of average height who, when I respond, say that they’re like, they want, they want to know where I shop because they have a tall teen daughter. And then I’m like, oh my god. Okay. My whole façade melts. And I’m like, “Let me tell you everything. I’m so happy to give you every tip.”
Bobby: Sit down. Let’s have a chat. Do you want me to call her? Because I’ll call her.
Anne: Exactly. Oh my god. For real. Like I actually have never offered to call her, but, like I 100% would. And anyway. So I sort of say, “Why are you asking?” And sometimes I say, “How tall are you?” And people are like, “Uh, oh, I’m, uh, 5’7.” Or, you know, or whatever. Like—
Bobby: Like okay.
Anne: Yeah. And every once in a while, will just say, like, “I’m sorry? Are you talking to me?” Like you know we’re strangers, right? Like do we know each other or? I mean because the only people I would ask for a measurement about their body is someone I was literally fitting for an item of clothing, or someone I had a personal relationship with. Anyway.
Bobby: I can, I can say I’ve never gone up to a stranger on the street and asked how tall they are. Not once in my life.
Anne: Or ask what shoe size they’re wearing. Or ask, like, any other numeric measurement about their body. It’s absurd. And the thing is, because of, you know, it’s sort of perceived as generally good to be tall, people are like, “Well, it’s a compliment.” You know? There’s often this thing where, you know, women will say, “I wish I were taller.” And it’s like, I don’t like you comparing our bodies. I really have no feelings whatsoever about your body. I think you’re, you look great. You’re fine. And don’t make me a foil for some kind of anxiety that you feel that might be very real, but like, it’s not about my body and I am not judging you for being shorter than. I’m just trying to live my life. You know?
Bobby: And also with regards to compliments, “You don’t know me. You really don’t have any business complimenting me.”
Anne: Yeah. Slash, like, you, I am a total stranger to you. Like I really think that people don’t know how often it happens. Like I really feel like one of my standard responses should be to say, you know, “A stranger asks me that every single day and it’s rude.” Like I should just say something like that. You know?
Bobby: Yeah. The only height-related stranger commentary that I will abide by is someone at a grocery store asking me to reach for something on the top shelf, which happens every single time I go to the grocery store.
Anne: Oh, I’m also fine with that.
Bobby: Every single time I go to the grocery store. “Can you grab the, like, box of tissues or whatever?” Yes. I would love to. Thank you for saying, “Hey, freak, can you grab the box of tissues on the top of that.” It’s always very kind.
Anne: Always very kind. Right. The tone matters. And also for me it matters. Once someone asks me where there, when there was literally a store employee standing in the same aisle. And then I was like, “Okay. Are you kidding me? Like that is the only time I’ve ever been, like, good-bye. This is, this is extremely rude. Like look around you.”
Bobby: Bye-bye. I have a quick game to play. It’s called Taller Girls. It’s really easy. I was talking with the co-worker of mine, Christine, about this game. And at first, I wanted to do, like, tall women in history and, like, do something a little more, a little more intellectual. And it turns out, there aren’t that many super tall women in history. You know? And whenever you start doing that, it gets really boring, or they were famous so long ago that you don’t have this, like, host of quotes to choose from. Or the quotes are so obvious, like, “Oh, of course this was said by a sojourner of truth.” You know? Like, “Oh, of course this was said by this other person.” So instead of that, this game is just called Taller Girls. I’m going to name two famous women and you’re going to tell me who was taller. Who was the taller girl?
Anne: Okay.
Bobby: No particular order. Let’s begin with Lupita Nyong’o or Meryl Streep? Who’s taller?
Anne: Streep.
Bobby: [Ding] Streep, by one inch. She’s 5’6”. Lupita’s 5’5”. Emma Stone or Jennifer Lawrence? Who’s the taller girl?
Anne: Oh, Jennifer Lawrence.
Bobby: [Ding] Jennifer Lawrence, by three inches. 5’6”, 5’9”. Then I did like a show, some of these are thematically kind of happening. Phoebe Waller-Bridge or Gingy Cohen?
Anne: Oh.
Bobby: Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: Hmm, I’m trying to, I’m like, “Have I ever seen a head-to-toe photo of Gingy Cohen?” I’m really like—
Bobby: That’s what I’m wondering, too.
Anne: Yeah. I’m like, “Hmm.” Okay. I, all right. Wild card. I’m just going to say Gingy Cohen.
Bobby: [Buzz]. It’s Phoebe Waller-Bridge. She’s 5’10”. Gingy’s 5’6”. Okay. Aquafina or Jada Pinkett Smith. Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: Aquafina.
Bobby: [Ding] Aquafina. Yeah, she’s 5’1”. Jada Pinkett Smith is 5’. Just 5’0”. A solid 5’0”. Okay. Viola Davis or—
Anne: An even 5’0”.
Bobby: An even 5, an even 5. Viola Davis or Michelle Rodriguez? Just thinking about widows. Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: Viola Davis.
Bobby: [Buzz] This was a trick question. They’re both 5’5”. When you look through lists of famous actresses, everyone’s 5’5”. All famous actors, too.
Anne: Don’t I know it? And all models are 5’9” to 5’10”. There is literally, except for Julia Child, who clocks in at my fellow 6’2”.
Bobby: She’s 6’2”. Right. Yeah.
Anne: I have to tell you, I had this, I’m, sorry. Am I spoiling a Julia Child one somewhere in there? I, you know, so in the basement of the Smithsonian, like, American whatever museum there is a replica of Julia Child’s kitchen. And when I was in college—
Bobby: Oh, I’ve seen it. Yeah.
Anne: Yeah. When I was in college a friend of mine had, like, some family friend who was a curator there and gave us like a, like an after-hours tour. And we got to walk into it. And I was like, “This is a custom kitchen built for my body.” It was like that’s how I learned how tall Julia Childs was. And it was very, it was very aspirational. Like that and the fact that Oprah has a tub molded to her own body are on my, like, if I’m ever rich bucket list. Of like my whole world will just be tailored to my bod.
Bobby: I love the idea of baths. Like I love the idea of relaxation. Like I’m always striving for, like, some sort of balm for my endless anxiety. And baths seem like such a good little problem-solver. And every time I get into the bathtub I feel like a crazy person. I’m just like, “Wait. This isn’t fun. Is this fun for other people? Is this relaxing? I feel like I’m being shoved inside this little box that was never meant to contain me.”
Anne: Yeah. I mean my, the bath problem for me is, like, knees can be underwater, or tits can be underwater. Both cannot be underwater at the same time. So, like, really, it’s not that relaxing. And there’s always a calculus happening, which is why Oprah’s custom tub, when I saw that in the Vogue profile a few years ago, Steadman’s not allowed to use it. I was like, “This is aspirational.”
Bobby: Isn’t it made out of some sort of really luxurious material or some sort of stone? Is it opal?
Anne: Yeah. I’m sure.
Bobby: Onyx?
Anne: I don’t actually know the material. All I know it is molded to her body. And I’m just sort of like, “You know, Bobby, all I wish for the two of us, and everyone else with a body that is not accommodated by normal bathtubs, like all I wish for us is custom Oprah tubs.”
Bobby: Hand-carved out of marble and onyx to her body. Wow.
Anne: Obviously, which our partners or people who share space with us are not allowed into. It’s just for us.
Bobby: That is your episode of House Hunters. It’s like, “Does it have a tub that can fit my body? Like, no. Then I’m moving out. No. This is not what I’m choosing.” Back to the game, a few more left. We’re like halfway through. What did we do? Viola Davis and Michelle Rodriguez? Okay. Laverne or Shirley? Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: Laverne.
Bobby: [Ding] Got it. Laverne’s the tall girl. Penny Marshall 5’6”, Cindy Williams, 5’4”. Cagney or Lacey? Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: Oh my god. I have no, I mean I’m going to go Lacey.
Bobby: [Buzz] It’s a tie. They’re 5’5”.
Anne: Oh my god. Everyone’s 5’5”.
Bobby: Everyone’s 5’5”.
Anne: You know, this also explains why, like, tall women, like women who are my height get more comments. Like you are, you are closer to the kind of, like, male average than I am closer to the female average. Like that’s the other thing is, like, yeah. Anyway.
Bobby: And also, everyone they’re seeing on television is 5’5”.
Anne: Truly. That was another thing I loved Tall Girl. I’m just like, “Oh, this is what my body looks like moving space. I, like, don’t even, I don’t really see that very often.” You know what I mean?
Bobby: I have no perception of my own height until I see someone tall in a distance. And I say, “Oh, that’s a tall person.” And then I get up close and I realize they’re my height. And I’m like, “Oh. Okay. This is what everyone’s seeing constantly.” Brandy or Monica? The Boy’s Mind. Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: I mean obviously, obviously. Ooh, good question. I’m going to go Brandy.
Bobby: [Buzz] Monica. She’s 5’8”. Brandy’s 5’7”. Rachel or Monica from Friends.
Anne: Rachel.
Bobby: [Buzz] They’re both 5’5”. I’m sorry. They’re both 5’5”.
Anne: I’m going to stop answering these questions and just say they’re both 5’5”.
Bobby: Here’s a real one. Here’s a real one. Thelma or Louise? Geena Davis or Susan Sarandon?
Anne: Geena Davis and, I mean Geena Davis is tall. I’m going to say Geena Davis.
Bobby: It’s Geena Davis. She’s 6’. And Susan is 5’7”. Hustlers is on top of mine. Constance Wu or Jennifer Lopez?
Anne: Oh, Jennifer Lopez. I, wait, maybe that was a heel—yes, Jennifer Lopez.
Bobby: [Ding] By an inch. She’s 5’5”.
Anne: I really, Hustlers was the most delightful thing to happen to me all week.
Bobby: It’s incredible. It really is. I can’t wait to see it again. Jane Lynch or Tiffany Haddish?
Anne: Jane Lynch.
Bobby: [Ding] Jane Lynch. She’s 6’0”. Tiffany’s 5’6”. Lady Gaga or Madonna?
Anne: I know every celebrity is 6’0”. Like I really do. Every female celebrity who’s 6’0” or taller. Lady Gaga or Madonna. Madonna.
Bobby: [Ding] Madonna. 5’5”. Lady Gaga’s 5’1”. Oh, right. That’s the name for the documentary. Oh, she’s 5’2”. But I think she’s actually 5’. Michelle Williams or Michelle Williams.
Anne: Well, white Michelle Williams is tiny. Well, they’re probably both tiny. 5’5”. I’m going to go with both 5’5”.
Bobby: [Buzz] No, Michelle Williams of Destiny’s Child is 5’9”.
Anne: Okay. Okay.
Bobby: Joan Didion or Maya Angelou?
Anne: Maya Angelou.
Bobby: [Ding] Maya Angelou by a foot. 5’1”, I mean 5’0” to 6’0”. What is this? Tennis? 3 more. Steffi Graf or Maria Sharapova?
Anne: Maria Sharapova.
Bobby: [Ding] 6’3”. 6’3”.
Anne: Again, I know every woman who is over 6’0” tall.
Bobby: You’ve got to them tacked on your wall.
Anne: I really do. The mood board.
Bobby: Two more left. Gigi Hadid, or Bella Hadid?
Anne: Gigi.
Bobby: [Ding] Gigi, yeah. She’s 5’10”. Bella’s 5’9”. And finally, Gwendolyn Christy or Elizabeth Debicki? Who’s the tall girl?
Anne: I’m going to pull a both 5’5”. I have no idea.
Bobby: [Buzz] They are both 6’3”.
Anne: What?
Bobby: Yes. They are both 6’3”.
Anne: I can’t even. I’m hanging up.
Bobby: And I think with that we can end this conversation. I’ve kept you long enough. This has been a, I know it was a tall order. Thank you for coming on.
Anne: Oh my god, I’m throwing this microphone across the room.
Bobby: Throw the microphone across the room. We can end this. Thank you for talking to me about Tall Girl, and Tall Girl is streaming now on Netflix. You can listen to Anne’s podcast Call Your Girlfriend anytime, and you should. And her book Big Friendship comes out when?
Anne: Middle of 2020. Summer next year.
Bobby: Middle of 2020. All right. This was fun. This was fun.
Anne: Thanks, Bobby. This was very fun. I’m also just, like, please tell all the tormented over 6’0” teen girls you know to give me a call. I’m happy to talk to them. I really like, there’s nothing I want more than to, like, be the emotional counselor to all of them. So.
Bobby: And never ask a stranger how tall they are. Ever.
Anne: Oh my god. Never ask a stranger—
Bobby: Don’t comment on a stranger’s body.
[Music]
Anne: Yes, exactly. The only thing you’re allowed to comment on, on a stranger is a choice that they made when they woke up that morning. That’s my rule.
Bobby: Oh, I love that.
Anne: So you can be, like, “I love your shoes. Or I love your makeup.” But you’d better not be like—
Bobby: But it has to be positive, right? The only thing you’re allowed to comment is a positive comment on something that, a choice they made when they wake up that morning.
Anne: Right. Like literally anything that they don’t control or that is, like a kind of clearly, like, just about the body, off-limits.
Bobby: That is, like, a life-changing piece of advice. I’m fine with that.
Anne: I’m here. I’m here for you.
Bobby: Thank you. Bye, Anne. Thank you so much.
Anne: All right. Bye, Bobby.
[End of Audio]